Do Denominational Rules Conflict With The WORD?


Uniformity...

I feel you...

The choir... Women are not allowed to wear big jewelry for braodcast reasons. WE CAN WEAR ANYTHING as long as when a woman sits down she has the "Lap Cloth" over her legs. But thats only necessary in the front rows or aisles. No one should evever say, I don't wanna go to church because I don't have something to wear. I wear T-Shirt and Jeans most of the time... EVEN ON EASTER if I am not in the Orchestra or Choir.
 
Come as you are. This is one of the reason I like the song "Just as I am." God doesn't care about how we look or dress. God knows our heart and that is all that matters when you are worshipping God. There is only one Church ,and that is God's Church. Don't you all think that we need to concentrate on how many souls we can lead to God than on how we look on the outside to man? Man cannot save us. We are only saved by the "Grace of God." I am so glad that God is the only one that has to judge me, because man is too pretentious. This is one of the reasons that a lot of people do not attend church because man has taken upon himself to set certain standards for the church and they are not Gods' standards for his church. The Church is about leading souls to Christ, not to disillusion people.
 



JSUII...

You said that. I thin kits refreshing ti be able to alk into a church and not wonder "will someone say something abou my attire."
 
A place for everybody

The closest thing that I have ever seen to Jesus speaking on something as relating to denomonations is found in Mark 9:38-40 / Luke 9:49-50. Mark's account follows.

38 And John answered him, saying, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name, and he followeth not us: and we forbad him, because he followeth not us. 39 But Jesus said, Forbid him not: for there is no man which shall do a miracle in my name, that can lightly speak evil of me. 40 For he that is not against us is on our part.

If someone knows of other references, please share them.

Now, as for attire...please note that there are an awful lot of scriptures relating to attire both in the OT and NT. Read them for yourselves...pray...and let the Lord speak to you.

We must understand that there is a different requirement for those who serve the congregation (preachers, teachers, ushers, choir members, secretaries, custodians, parking attendants, etc.) than for those who are IN the congregation. Those IN the congregation can feel free to "come as you are" to a certain extent. However, those who are ministering have roles beyond merely being participants in the worship experience. These people are the leaders...whether you are preaching the Word, wielding a mop, or singing in the choir. The congregants take their queues from the leaders. God has ordained it that way because he is the God of ORDER. Congregations generally take on the personality of the senior leader.

Let me stick to the choir since that is easiest. Choirs who wear robes do so for one basic purpose: A visual display of unity - emulating God Himself. It is a uniform...and a uniform means exactly what the term implies - everybody looking as much the same as possible. It is a military concept that goes back to Joshua at Jericho and to Jehoshaphat and Judah. The Levites (those who served in the worship) had uniforms. Jesus wore clothes that spoke of his rabbinical engagement. It makes it easy for those who may not be familiar with who you are to know what you do...and that creates opportunities for you to minister. What I am simply trying to say is that attire and decorum have their place in church. It works well for some people and turns others off. We will simply have to deal with that. As it relates to numbers in the congregation...having large numbers has never constituted the approval of God. Most often God tends to the smaller number. That said, if a person doesn't fit in a congregation that embraces those formal/semi-formal trappings and they can find a congregation that is less formal but serves good food and good teaching, then help them out the door in a hurry. If that causes them to grow more rapidly "over yonder", then let's help that part of the body to develop. There is nothing wrong with either position.

I will tell you that when ministering on the street, in tents, or parking lots I run into street walkers (both male and female) who dress the part. I don't begrudge their appearance because they are involved in what they are doing and I am their to offer Christ. However, I am offended when I make an altar call at a church and members who are not street walkers come to the altar dressed as though they are street walkers. You cannot clean fish before you catch them, but once you do catch them you had better get to work on them pretty quickly. If you don't, then they, you, and your whole environment will start to carry and odor that you won't rid yourself of easily.

Finally, denomonations don't bother me at all. Like I said, I cannot find a lot of scripture against them. What bothers me is the segregation in the church - and there IS plenty of scripture against that.
 
ThaTromboneGuy,

That is exactly what I am saying. God doesn't care about what our attire look like. God looks at our heart. Man looks on the outside, not God.
 
Originally posted by JSUII
ThaTromboneGuy,

That is exactly what I am saying. God doesn't care about what our attire look like. God looks at our heart. Man looks on the outside, not God.
Click to expand...

If God did not want our best... "Why did God have a problem with Cain's Offering?"

Trying hard to degress......
 
Long but it's getting the job done

Gen 4:1 And Adam knew Eve his wife; and she conceived, and bare Cain, and said, I have gotten a man from the LORD. Gen 4:2 And she again bare his brother Abel. And Abel was a keeper of sheep, but Cain was a tiller of the ground. Gen 4:3 And in process of time it came to pass, that Cain brought of the fruit of the ground an offering unto the LORD. Gen 4:4 And Abel, he also brought of the firstlings of his flock and of the fat thereof. And the LORD had respect unto Abel and to his offering: Gen 4:5 But unto Cain and to his offering he didn't have any respect. And Cain was very wroth, and his countenance fell. Gen 4:6 And the LORD said unto Cain, Why are you wroth? and why is thy countenance fallen? Gen 4:7 If thou doest well, shalt thou not be accepted? and if thou doest not well, sin lieth at the door. And unto thee [shall be] his desire, and thou shalt rule over him.

We have been told all of our lives that Cains offering of fruit was not the correct offering to please God...

Read Gen. chapter 4:3 and 4 closely and see if there is a difference between Cains offering and the offering of Ables, other than fruit and animal.

3 In the course of time Cain brought some of the fruits of the soil as an offering to the LORD . 4 But Abel brought fat portions from some of the firstborn of his flock. The LORD looked with favor on Abel and his offering, 5 but on Cain and his offering he did not look with favor. So Cain was very angry, and his face was downcast.

Now that you have read it have you caught the major difference that rearely is ever preached, I have even heard it read as that Cain brought the first fruits and able brought the firstlings of his flock.


However this is not what it says: Cain brought an offering of the fruit of the ground and Able brought of the firstlings of his flock. There is a big diffrence between just the fruit of the ground and the first fruit which is the best fruit that he has.


Lets look at the offering a little closer and realize that it is likely by the attitude that Cain exibited his heart wasn't right before God it appears that he did not bring the best of his fruit but possibly the very worst. Able without any remorse brought the very best of his flock the first borne pure, undefiled and offered it unto God. It seems that Cain didn't want to give anything but knew it was required of him so he picked the bad fruit that he couldn't sell or trade and didn't want to use it himself. This is in all probability what Cains offering consisted of fruit with rotton spots in it, small, not appealing to the eye, in other words nearly worthless, and with a bad attitude he brought this smelly offering of rotton fruit unto the Lord and begrudgingly offered it unto him.


We see that Cain became very mad when his offering was not acceptable to God and Ables was. God told Cain more or less like this "Why are you so mad, if you do well would it not be accepted, surly then you know that you have offered a bad offering and all is not well because you knew better." Cain was not wanting to offer anything but knew he had to because that God required an offering so he brought the worst he had and even begrudged that.


Because of his rebellion he became jealous of his brother because his offering was pleasing unto the Lord so out of anger and jealousy proceded to kill Able his brother.


Today as we give of our tithes and offerings the same rule applies if we begrudge what we give it will not be acceptable unto the Lord for the attitude of our heart isn't right and we do not receive the blessing that goes with giving only the hearthace of the loss of what we gave. With this God is not pleased and we have sinned. It is as well that we give nothing at all than to give it with regret.

___________________________________________________

God is not going to care what you wear. You ATTIRE doen't make a difference. Why do ministers dress up? Well my pastor wears a suit every Sunday because it looks good and we are on television world wide. The proper dressing is an image thing. No one really wants to look bad going to church. Now, when I wera t-shirts, shorts, & jeans to church, I make sure that they are ironed, and looking sharp... It's putting your best forward no matter what it is.
 
Remember docmump,

Cain's bad offering was directly related to his worship and not his clothes. God had a problem with Cain's form of worship (his bad offering) not necessarily what he had on. Giving God our best is a spiritual principle, not a physical one. I don't that if you showed up with a suit on, and showed up with jeans on, God would be more impressed with you than me, that's just what 'church folk' do.


OUR offering today is to offer our bodies as "living sacrifices" holy and pleasing to God. We're to worship Him in Spirit and in Truth. As long as you do that than I don't believe God cares that you have on jeans and a t-shirt as opposed to a suit.


People today are impressed with appearance, not God. God isn't going to give anyone 'kool points' for wearing what our Society now calls "church clothes". There's plenty of people who wear "church clothes" and wouldn't God is He came and sat down on there lap. Others, like myself, put on a tie sometimes, and wear jeans and tennis shoes other times and have no conviction from God.
So, "church clothes" are not pin striped suits and long black dresses. Church clothes can be considered whatever God's church goes to church in, i.e. church - clothes.


Also, "come as you are" I think deals more with 'people in the midst on sin / rebellion' more than it deals with clothes. I don't even think that it's a scripture but if it were I'd think that it be talking more about your Spiritual state, not your attire.
 
Originally posted by nevaehinvesting
Remember docmump,

Cain's bad offering was directly related to his worship and not his clothes. God had a problem with Cain's form of worship (his bad offering) not necessarily what he had on. Giving God our best is a spiritual principle, not a physical one. I don't that if you showed up with a suit on, and showed up with jeans on, God would be more impressed with you than me, that's just what 'church folk' do.


OUR offering today is to offer our bodies as "living sacrifices" holy and pleasing to God. We're to worship Him in Spirit and in Truth. As long as you do that than I don't believe God cares that you have on jeans and a t-shirt as opposed to a suit.


People today are impressed with appearance, not God. God isn't going to give anyone 'kool points' for wearing what our Society now calls "church clothes". There's plenty of people who wear "church clothes" and wouldn't God is He came and sat down on there lap. Others, like myself, put on a tie sometimes, and wear jeans and tennis shoes other times and have no conviction from God.
So, "church clothes" are not pin striped suits and long black dresses. Church clothes can be considered whatever God's church goes to church in, i.e. church - clothes.


Also, "come as you are" I think deals more with 'people in the midst on sin / rebellion' more than it deals with clothes. I don't even think that it's a scripture but if it were I'd think that it be talking more about your Spiritual state, not your attire.
Click to expand...

nevaehinvesting and ThaTromboneGuy,
Great, We are on the same page. The Sacrifice and the what is behind the sacrifice.

I really want to make sure I post this correctly. That when we worship God we MUST worship him in spirit and in truth. Both Spiritually and Physically. And when we worship God Physically, we must present ourselves as Living Sacrifice. And this Sacrifice must be the best we have to offer less our sacrifices will be rejected.

ThaTromboneGuy, Sorry the word is Digress not Degress. So I Digressed.

I got to run. I will post later in this thread, if needed.
:)
 
docmump,

Yes, I still say that God doesn't care about our clothes. You referred to Cain's offering, well that still doesn't have anything to do with clothes. This is why I made the statement earlier about us being so pretentious and materialistic. God looks at our heart, not what we are wearing. We also have to remember that Jesus walked and talked with the downtrodden and they were not the best dressed. Jesus did not care. We are all in this together, and we need to encourage as many people as possible to come to church and give their life to God. No matter how they are dressed.
 
I hate to see folks coming to church like they are headed to the club. I don't think we should put this on God and what He likes. But show some pride and put on your best clothing to show that you have been blessed.

Would these folks wear the same thing for a job interview. I bet they will wear their best. Even criminals put on a suit on trial day. We just tolerate too much of what people want to do.

All these late people carrying Bibles are worst than those who do not dress for church. Pants hanging off their butts and coming in late.

Don't get me fired up on this one.

Get to church on time
Dress up
put some money in the collection plate.
 
Mightydog

People dress up for job interviews because the employer probably cares what they look like. Also, it may be some kind of requirement for working there.

Suits are not more acceptable to God than jeans. They're more acceptable to people, not God.
It's sad that in the Body of Christ we have words like "church clothes." We've condemned people so much with our attire traditions that I've heard people say, "I can't go to church this sunday because I don't have any -church clothes."

What are biblical church clothes?

Let me say this, "anything that you or your church thinks people shuold do that's not found in the bible is called a TRADITION. I'm not condemning all traditions but DON'T think that you should confuse our Traditions or Popular thinking with what God has said in Scripture.

My opinion, people who think worship is linked to the clothes you have on, don?t understand what worship is. Or, their understanding came partly from the bible and partly from church tradition.

Remember this: Your LIFE is worship. You don?t come to church just to worship God on Sunday, Worship is what you should have been doing all week long.

That means.........Worship is accepted at your house at night when you?re in your under clothes, it?s accepted when you?re at a friends house with shorts and slippers on, and it?s accepted when you?re in the shower with nothing on.
God accepts worship when you sincerely worship Him in Spirit and in Truth. Are you telling me that God accepts worship in all those other places during the week with all types of attire on but when ?church folk? get around each other on Sunday He requires suits for guys and long black dresses for women?
What scriptures support that reasoning? Only church tradition supports that!

In the old testament, God wanted the people to do A, B, C, D, E, F, G in order to worship Him. TODAY in the new testament He only requires that Christians do it ?in Spirit and in Truth.?

Since no scriptures directly say it, what scriptures imply that when God?s people get together we should have on what society now calls ?church clothes??


p.s. I agree that people should be on time for church and again, could someone please biblicaly define for me what God recognizes as acceptable ?church clothes??

I see nothing wrong with going to church with jeans, a t-shirt, and tennis shoes every Sunday. I've seen people at my church with shorts on and I didn't see any problem with that.
 
Oh, and IF God ever did decide to incorporate a 'church clothes requirement category', I doubt that it would involve these ugly purple/green/red pimp suits that these guys and pastors wear or these big 18 feather/flower hats that a lot of women wear to church. That's more acceptable than nice jeans? Com'on man.
 



Great Post Nevaehinvesting but what I am saying is when you worship God, Give him your best. Your Offering, your sacrifice, your time, even your dress. The BEST!!! And I believe the scriptural basis for this was the story of Cain and Abel. Abel Gave his best and Cain did not.


:)
 
Originally posted by nevaehinvesting
Mightydog

...
In the old testament, God wanted the people to do A, B, C, D, E, F, G in order to worship Him. TODAY in the new testament He only requires that Christians do it ?in Spirit and in Truth.?

Since no scriptures directly say it, what scriptures imply that when God?s people get together we should have on what society now calls ?church clothes??


p.s. I agree that people should be on time for church and again, could someone please biblicaly define for me what God recognizes as acceptable ?church clothes??

I see nothing wrong with going to church with jeans, a t-shirt, and tennis shoes every Sunday. I've seen people at my church with shorts on and I didn't see any problem with that.
Click to expand...

1. God has always required worship in spirit (note the lowercase "s") and truth.
Jn 4:23-24
But the hour cometh, and now is, when the true worshippers shall worship the Father in spirit and in truth: for the Father seeketh such to worship him. God [is] a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship [him] in spirit and in truth.

Jesus did not establish anything new in that regard. The analogy to Cain/Abel reflects that.

2.Implications and scriptural references...Here are a couple.
Gal 5:7-18
Ye did run well; who did hinder you that ye should not obey the truth? This persuasion [cometh] not of him that calleth you. A little leaven leaveneth the whole lump. I have confidence in you through the Lord, that ye will be none otherwise minded: but he that troubleth you shall bear his judgment, whosoever he be. And I, brethren, if I yet preach circumcision, why do I yet suffer persecution? then is the offence of the cross ceased. I would they were even cut off which trouble you. For, brethren, ye have been called unto liberty; only [use] not liberty for an occasion to the flesh, but by love serve one another. For all the law is fulfilled in one word, [even] in this; Thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself. But if ye bite and devour one another, take heed that ye be not consumed one of another. [This] I say then, Walk in the Spirit, and ye shall not fulfil the lust of the flesh. For the flesh lusteth against the Spirit, and the Spirit against the flesh: and these are contrary the one to the other: so that ye cannot do the things that ye would. But if ye be led of the Spirit, ye are not under the law.

1 Cor 8:5-13
For though there be that are called gods, whether in heaven or in earth, (as there be gods many, and lords many,) But to us [there is but] one God, the Father, of whom [are] all things, and we in him; and one Lord Jesus Christ, by whom [are] all things, and we by him. Howbeit [there is] not in every man that knowledge: for some with conscience of the idol unto this hour eat [it] as a thing offered unto an idol; and their conscience being weak is defiled. But meat commendeth us not to God: for neither, if we eat, are we the better; neither, if we eat not, are we the worse. But take heed lest by any means this liberty of yours become a stumblingblock to them that are weak. For if any man see thee which hast knowledge sit at meat in the idol's temple, shall not the conscience of him which is weak be emboldened to eat those things which are offered to idols; And through thy knowledge shall the weak brother perish, for whom Christ died? But when ye sin so against the brethren, and wound their weak conscience, ye sin against Christ. Wherefore, if meat make my brother to offend, I will eat no flesh while the world standeth, lest I make my brother to offend.


3. Marriage is honorable and the bed undefiled. So, my wife and I worship naked in the privacy of our bed chamber. It is a wonderful expression of love and thanksgiving.

4. I love preaching in my jeans and a comfortable shirt. There are occasions and times where that is warranted, fitting, and proper. As a worshipper, I have no problem with the general congregation coming as they are. However, more formal dress certainly has a place for those who are ministers to the congregation and before the Lord. The concern here is not for those who are mature and stable. Rather, it is for those who are weak and ignorant who must be taught the responsibility of possessing their vessels in righteousness and true holiness, not becoming a stumbling block for others. We may come as we are, but we certainly won't stay that way. For most of us, that will include the way that we dress.
 
Denominations like many other things conflict with the word. Just let people congregate, have a good time, and hear the word of GOD.
 
I don't care how you say what God thinks about dress, I believe Church folks, good Christian folks should help to set examples for our moral society. If we start in the church, maybe our kids would have a better mind set in our schools today. You are either for all this foolshness that is going on or you try to do something about it. Put on your Sunday clothes and come to church. If you look decent you will have a better attitude about like itself.
 
Suit and neckties for men

A nice dress for the young ladies.

Older women hats.

Older Men dark suit and stacy adams shoes.

You know what Sunday clothing, you are using the church to tear down wearing Sunday clothing clothing to church.

Dress up when going to church
Don't be late
 
MD: If we ever go to church with you, out of respect, I'd wear my "Sunday Best".


If you come to church with us, you can wear what you want. Just so you have on clothes. :)
 
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