Discussion: lilith


Tony

__________
People often ask; why does the Bible say 1st in Genesis 1:27 ?So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them, Then later in Genesis chapter 2 after the chapter 1 creation story it goes into, Adam's sleep & the taking of the rib.

According to the Book of Genesis in the Christian Bible and Judaism's Torah, and to Islam's Qur'an, Adam was the first man created by God. At Genesis 1:27 Adam's female mate is said to have been created with Adam, and at Genesis 2:21-22 Adam's wife,which we call Eve is said to have been created from his rib. Hence, Eve has, in modern times, been thought of as the first woman, but was she really?

In Genesis, there are two seperate accounts of creation, one at Genesis 1:27 and another after Genesis 2:4. While creationists and many other religious people believe these to be written by the same author to represent two different perspectives, most biblical scholars support the documentary hypothesis, which claims each account derived from seperate source texts that were later combined, with Eve's name and story being present only in the Yahwist text. Nethertheless, the presence of two distinct accounts is noted, and regarded with some curiosity.

The first account says male and female [God] created them, which was viewed to imply simultaneous creation, whereas the second account states that God created Eve from Adam's rib because Adam was lonely. Consequently, to resolve the accounts, rabbis suggested that Eve and the woman of the first account were two seperate individuals.

Well who in the world would this First Woman be if not Eve?

In a context seperate to Adam, at Isaiah 34:14 Lilith is explicitely mentioned by name, though often not appearing in translations - her name (liyliyth in the Masoretic text) is replaced by the phrase screech owl in the KJV.

Isaiah 34:14

Wildcats shall meet with hyenas,
goat-demons shall call to each other;
there to Lilith shall repose,
and find a place to rest.
There shall the owl nest
and lay and hatch and brood in its shadow



Some believe;

If woman was created from Adam, after his initial creation, than what happened to the female created at first? The answer, according to the Midrash, was that she was Lilith; created with Adam, she refused to comply with Adam's demand that she submit herself to him, and in the end fled from him by using the Ineffable Name. Adam then complained to God about his loneliness, and the creation of Eve followed, together with the "Fall" and the Expulsion from Eden. Adam, blaming this on Eve, separated from her, and for a time reunited with Lilith, before finally returning to Eve.

Lilith bore Adam a number of children in this interval, who became demons. After Adam's reconcilation with Eve, Lilith assumed the Queenship of the Demons; in some versions she is the consort of Samael, in others she remains unpartnered. As Queen of the Demons,

Now all of this may seem like a lot of Mythology, but millions believe that the evidence,
That Eve was not the first woman is clearly seen in the Bible, & that the reason some women & men are innately evil to the point of Reprobates, is because they are descendents of Adam & Lilith, demons that pretend to be human, & any woman where Lilith is her mother should be avoided at all cost.
 
Soooooo ...

Lilith is the Queen of all that is evil, and her spawn should be avoided at all costs? How are they identified? Do they have horns? Brown skin? Six fingers on one hand? Hazel eyes?

How would one know one of these people to avoid them before it was too late?

Also, don't you find it interesting that Lilith's children became demons, but one of Eve's children killed his brother? Fratricide kind of smacks of behavior that is less than saintly, if you ask me, but what do I know?

I'm just asking. I'm sure you have the answers. I can't wait to read them.

Can't stay IGNORANT my ENTIRE life, I don't suppose. :read:
 



Even after the murder, God continues to be Cain's protector while informing him of his new condition. Cain will be a wanderer, but he is placed under the protection of God, who puts the famous "sign" on him.

Secondly, demon identification is done by simply looking at the heart & nature, of a thing,
Connecting words, versus actions.
Listening to the unspoken

An apple never tells you it is an apple.
 
WRONG!

I can easily take a banana peel & fill it with apple pieces.
I could do it so cleverly that, the only way you would know
It wasn?t a real banana, was if you looked inside.

Inside like the Heart

People can look anyway, but it?s the heart that counts.

Not the money
Not looks
Not anything
But the heart dear child?the heart?..
 
Interesing

The problem with the word "liyliyth" is it's a hapax legomenon (hapax legomena) meaning that occurs only once in a given body of text. Greek : hapax, once + legomenon, neuter sing. passive participle of legein, to count, say.

Hapax legomenon, are nearly impossible to interpret. But, a word's meaning in an can best be determined by examining its context.

Looking at the Hebrew


liyliyth = screech

lah'- yel-aw = night (as opposed to day)

luwl = staircase or winding stair


Base on the context of the scripture. In my opinion this talking about a animal that is active during the night and inhabits desolate places
 
Dr H.. said:
Interesing

The problem with the word "liyliyth" is it's a hapax legomenon (hapax legomena) meaning that occurs only once in a given body of text. Greek : hapax, once + legomenon, neuter sing. passive participle of legein, to count, say.

Hapax legomenon, are nearly impossible to interpret. But, a word's meaning in an can best be determined by examining its context.

Looking at the Hebrew


liyliyth = screech

lah'- yel-aw = night (as opposed to day)

luwl = staircase or winding stair


Base on the context of the scripture. In my opinion this talking about a animal that is active during the night and inhabits desolate places

this does nothing to explain the two seperate accounts of creation
& the rabbis refer to a lilith not a liyliyth
you know like a sail or a sale
I have so much to post.....
 
Have to head out of town, but will explain it Thursday.

Briefly, there are not two different accounts. The first is a "brief" introduction and the second is more detailed.
 
Dr.H,

We?ve had this discussion before ?Adam & Eve were the 1st people on earth?
Can it be proved or Disproved with Scripture? whenever you?re ready I?m here

Oh by the way, ever hear of the race of the giants that walked the earth?
What about the war that took place in heaven?
Lucifer?s flood?
Dinosaurs in the Bible?
Why did Jesus tell Mary not to touch Him?

Oh so much we can discuss,

Take Care until we speak again

DISCLAIMER:

Some of what I post & will post here as we're discussing, May not necessarily be my
Personal belief, but rather more of a weighing of the counter argument
In search of any merit, as we must
 
Imagine-

Adam didn't get 'lonely' until after he named the animals. When the animals came to him to get their names, Adam could see that each one of them had another that completed or corresponded to them. Male and Female. He had to notice that eveytime the male monkey told a joke, the female monkey made sure to laugh. The male elephant couldn't stop looking at the female elephant funny. I won't bring up the rabbits. :tup: The male horse had a female horse to hang out with. It wasn't "dog". It was "male dog" and "female dog".

Point was, "For Adam, there was not found a suitable helper." -now he's lonely.

He was the first MAN. Not talking about the demons before Genesis (theology stuff). I mean when God starts fresh with people. Adam was the first man, Eve "the mother of all living"-per Genesis, was the first wo-man.

However, this should not be a big debate that doesn't matter anyways....
 
Doesn?t Matter? Hmm.. You may be correct.

But what does matter?

Soul salvation is the Goal.
But God did command us to love one another also.

For you see, my academic exercise or ?theology stuff? as you say, is only to demonstrate,

That if one can miss some things in the Bible like;

Adam was the 1st man made in God?s or as He said ?Our Image? (yeah who is the "our" He was referring to?)
Noah didn?t put 2 of every kind of animal on the ark
The Bible never says there were 3 wise men etc. etc.

Then it's possible to miss the things that truly ?Matter?

Hopefully I can encourage some to Read for themselves & Challenge Me, So that we Both grow & thereby, away from this board
Many may continue to READ for themselves, recognize those false prophets that are always complained about, & find their way to heaven.

I would never debate for debate sake; only to lead those to the creator.

I enjoy it when the so- called preachers respond, out of a conscious obligation, or whatever, but I encourage others to join in, ask questions etc.
I don?t know everything, but I do know some amazing things, & I can speak without any ulterior motive.

Let?s Learn & Share together.

By the way when Jesus mentioned to the thief on the cross something about ?This day you shall be in paradise? (I?m paraphrasing) Did He mean that particular day or later on after the judgment?

I?m just studying trying to show myself approved?..

Oh & when you have fullfilled your obligation, what have you done?
 
Quickly,

The question which is debated is whether Adam was the first man or humanoid being on earth, or if other types of men existed before Adam.

Many claim Adam was the first humanoid or man, and was consequentially the father of all peoples and races on earth, or ever existed on the earth.

The primary arguments for such claims stem from Cain. For example, "If only Adam and Eve existed, then who was Cain afraid of that would kill him? . . . If Adam and Eve were the first and only people at this time, then from where did Cain find a wife? Not only was he able to find a wife, but there were obviously enough people to be part of the city built by Cain. . . .All of these circumstances thus point to the existence of men independent of Adam."

"Whoever kills Cain, vengeance shall be taken on him sevenfold" (Gen. 4:14,15). The statements clearly indicate other people already existing at the time of Adam, Eve and Cain. Yet those who always apply a literal interpretation of the Bible say that Adam and Eve were the first humans on earth.


First, we know that Cain killed Abel when Adam was nearly one hundred and thirty years old. Support from this comes from the fact that Seth is born specifically to replace Abel, and that birth occurs when Adam was one hundred and thirty (Gen. 5:3).

We don't know exactly how old Adam was when Cain killed Abel. We only know that this event occurred before the birth of Seth. It could have been only a year or two, or 30 or 50 years.


Second, it appears that Abel and Cain were born soon after Adam's expulsion from the garden (Gen. 3:24; 4:1).
So between the birth of the first two and the birth of Seth, we have over a hundred year time span.

Surely that's plenty of time to party reproductively. After Cain and before Seth, Adam and Eve produced many children who had children and grandchildren, long before Abel was killed. Cain would have plenty of people to encounter.

BUT

This 100 year "time span" is speculation. This would mean that Cain was 100 years old when he killed Abel, when it is generally acknowledged he was a youth of no more than 20 at this time. How ever long this "time span" was between Cain's birth , and the birth of Seth , there is no Biblical proof or indication that Adam and Eve had other children during this time span.

The Bible does say that Adam had other children, but this occurred after Seth:

After he begot Seth, the days of Adam were eight hundred years; and he begot sons and daughters. So all the days that Adam lived were nine hundred and thirty years; and he died (Gen. 5:4,5).
Adam was 130 years old at the time of Seth's birth. Was It during the remaining 800 years of Adam's life that he had other children?
 
TONY

Read & let me know - what you think. There are many Pseudepigrapha of the Old & New Testament and they make interesting reading, most repeat what's all ready been printed.


Chapter 4

This is good for additional knowledge. I place some truth in this, because in Jewish tradition and the writings of Josephus, they mentions that Cain and Abel had twin sisters.

I love this kind of information, just love it! You might ask, why not mention the name of their wives? The wife / female was not important in the Hebrew culture, unless they had a direct line to Christ.



http://doig.net/Jubilees.html
 



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