Did Street&Smith do 1AA HBCU'S a disservice


B

Bigtyme69

New Member
Did Street & Smith do 1AA HBCU's a disservice : I felt like S&S lumping of all black colleges into one section was a slight to the two 1AA conferences because all of the other 1AA conferences were together why were ours seperated from them it implied to that all Hbcu football is the same when we all know it isn't what do you all think let me know.
















:idea: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:
 
WE had our own magazine 2 years ago by SS so it has always been like that. HBCU football is an entirely different product when you compare it to mainstream d-1-aa football. We deserve our own section.

Now do I like the lack of info in it? No. But I'll take a watered down version early in the summer if a better version is due out in the late summer (Black Voices).
 



Black Voices is better

I agree that Black Voices is better, although I must admit that I thought the issue they did two years ago was better than last year (maybe I'm being to picky). Yes, HBCU football should be placed into a seperate section because the product is unique and indeed has it's own devoted followers. Besides, Street and Smith didn't just cover the I-AA HBCU, but they also covered DII, DIII and NAIA HBCU football programs.

LaMont

I just love the fact that HBCU programs are coming back to life and that there is a renewed commitment going on across the country.
 
Street&Smith

Street & Smith's cancel the HCBU magazine issue because of lack luster sales and low subscribers. NUMBERS ALWAYS TALK LOUDER THAN WORDS. I have all the issues. I called the magazine up and ask why did they cancel the issue and that was their answer, low sales. So when Blackvoices come out with their issue, go and buy it and tell another pahtna to go purchase it. Just don't go to the bookstore and thumb through the magazine,BUY IT! Even better subscribe to it. That's the tool ALL magazines use when they approach companies for advertisements, SUBSCRIPTIONS! No one can argue with numbers be it positive or negative. It is a statistic that a low percentage of brothas don't purchase or subscribe to magazines. Sad but true.:(
 
that's a great idea...

Maybe I should subscrive to Black Voices, LaMont! Where do I go???:confused:
 
I think you guys missed my point I'm not castigating S&S for there section on HBCU'S but I do feel while our brand of football is unique we still compete and beat the pwc's in 1AA . Div 2 and div 3 football is not the same and it is a disservice to 1AA HBCU'S to lump us all together. I would like to think there are more people then Lut Williams to cover all HBCU football in the country. I bought S&S but I subcribe to BVQ theres a difference. Livingstone is not the same as Southern that's the bottom line Famu NCa&t Grambling JSU play a different brand of football, while some D2's may beat a 1AA sometime look at those schools some of those 1AA should be d2 anyway we shouldn't just accept anything because they give it to us, we should except nothing but a fair and accurate report about our schools. :confused:
 
Hmmm...

I think a fan from Livingstone, and any fan from the CIAA and SIAC should post on this forum and give us their thoughts, even though this is SWAC only.

My opinion though, bigtyme69, is that they may play different brands of football, but they are all HBCUs. I don't know the percentage of colleges and universities in the US that are HBCU, but it is rather small. And no matter what division, we all are historically bonded (Civil War, Civil Rights, Segregation vs. Integration, etc. etc.) by one event in history or another. That's why the S&S magazine is doing: recognizing the special status of the HBCU's, a small minority among white-dominated schools.
So, you see, it is not about differing brands of football. <b>It's about the HBCU's altogether, and how they are an important part of our history as a nation.</b>
 
Man that's BULLS@#$ that's like saying all black people are the same because we benefit from the civil rights movement we have different veiws on many different things so why should such an ecelctic group of people allow them to lump our football together when it is not the same, just because its football does not make it the same type of game why compare a chevy to a benz while they are both good cars they are very different in quailty. This has nothing to do with history or anything but football I'm reminded everyday that I'm minority in this country I don't need S&S to tell me that, sports is one of the places we have been somewhat able to get a fair shot . The fact is the Meac and the SWAC are different from every other HBCU conference because the best schools in these conferences compete and beat pwc's on a regular basis while the D2's don't and yes we must speak with one voice on some issues this is not one of them. Their is a difference so lets celebrate it. Lets not pretend that our 1AA need to be seperate be were special we are seperated because as normal we are being streotyped you know the saying "those blacks are all the same"
 
I'm just saying that each of the schools has done something special, and football is the trademark sport for all of the school. I don't mind seeing all the HBCU football teams on S&S. If, for example, Paul Quinn (which is not I-AA, but is a HBCU) was founded by whites, and not blacks, it would not be listed on the magazine. Heck, the HBCU's wouldn't exist if it weren't for the football teams involved. I personally think that not only did they rewrite history is numerous fashions, they convinced other white schools to recruit black players, a sort of "catching-up." I may be going off the subject, but I don't think disrespect should be important for the I-AA HBCUs.

And they created several players that are household names in the pros. But what I'm trying to say, Bigtyme, I think the teams, no matter what level, have different, but effective calibers of play. They play their game, and it works. Blacks are not the same. Every person has their special preferences, but when you remember who you were, and how it has made you stronger, that's also important.:)
 
I understand the point that bigtyme69 is trying to make. I see somewhere in S&S black college football poll where they have some d2 schools ranked in with D1AA HBCU'S. That is somewhat condescending for D1AA Black schools. Maybe, again S&S is trying to cover all the bases in the African American market for sports magazines. True SWAC and MEAC is totally different from the rest of the HCBU'S football conferences. So I wonder what the media is trying say about Black D1AA football? Are they trying to say that there is no difference between D1AA HBCU'S and D2 HBCU'S? You know at one time Jet magazine did the same thing when they ranked HBCU'S in a poll regardless of whether they are d1aa or d2. Yes, Bigtyme69, they are doing the D1AA HCBU'S a disservice.
 
Looks like I'm convinced...

It's too bad, though, that they all have to be together. It may have to be that way, bigtyme, until the lower division schools join I-AA. What say you, bigtyme69???:confused:
 
Originally posted by SWACLocalBoy
If, for example, Paul Quinn (which is not I-AA, but is a HBCU) was founded by whites, and not blacks, it would not be listed on the magazine.
Click to expand...

This is not unusual. There are a lot of HBCU's that were started by whites. I would even say that most HBCU's were started by whites or because whites wanted them started.
 



Bigtyme,

Many of the other posters have seen my take on this subject (difference between D1AA and D2 football), but you may not have so I will give it again. My premise is simple:

The difference when it comes to the quality of play, and the talent level of players between D1AA and D2 football (whether it is HBCU or PWC) is so small as to be negligible. The only discernable difference is the level of scholarships given, and that is somewhate negated by the fact that both divisions are allowed to split their scholarships between players. Saying the SWAC and MEAC play a different brand of football is misleading. All 4 conferences have good programs, mediocre programs, and flat out poor programs. You conviently compared a good D1AA (Southern) to a flat out poor D2 (Livingstone).

I hope you don't mean to imply that the only HBCUs that deserve decent coverage in the S&S magazine is SWAC and MEAC. That doesn't make sense. And please, D2 HBCUs beat their PWC counterparts about as often as D1AA HBCUs so that argument doesn't play.

Don't try to use the analogy of comparing D1A to D1AA. The difference in talent level between D1A and D1AA is Huge.

SWAC, MEAC, CIAA, and SIAC football were put together because BCF AS A WHOLE is a unique brand of football and serves a unique group of fans. So no S&S DID NOT do D1AA HBCUS a disservice by placing them in the same section with D2 HBCUS. On the contrary because there was a HBCU section in the magazine the SWAC and MEAC probably recieve far more coverage than any other D1AA conference in the magazine (last year PWC D1AA fans complained about this), just like SIAC and CIAA recieve far more coverage than any other D2 conference in the magazine (PWC D2 fans complained as well).
 
Shelt, SWACLocal, and BigTyme all made good points.

I think that the issue regarding how our schools are being reported on. It seems that some of us want it both ways, and some of us don't. Some of us like having all HBCU football teams lumped into one category. And then some of us want our schools reported in the same manner as the other D1-AA or D2 schools. So noboy's completely happy all of the time. And different publications report us differently. And I guess that's OK. But then again it's different from everybody else.

I guess the question has to be asked: How do we want to be classified?

Personally, I'd like to see the MEAC and the SWAC reported the same way the other D1-AA PWC conferences are reported. I don't want all the HBCUs lumped together......And the same would go for the SIAC and CIAA schools. Report and compare them to the other D2 schools, and not to all other HBCUs......

I think they ought to do away with the Sheridan BCF Poll.
 
I agree.

Originally posted by Taylor-Made'90
I think that the issue regarding how our schools are being reported on. It seems that some of us want it both ways, and some of us don't. Some of us like having all HBCU football teams lumped into one category. And then some of us want our schools reported in the same manner as the other D1-AA or D2 schools. So noboy's completely happy all of the time. And different publications report us differently. And I guess that's OK. But then again it's different from everybody else.

I guess the question has to be asked: How do we want to be classified?

Personally, I'd like to see the MEAC and the SWAC reported the same way the other D1-AA PWC conferences are reported. I don't want all the HBCUs lumped together......And the same would go for the SIAC and CIAA schools. Report and compare them to the other D2 schools, and not to all other HBCUs......

I think they ought to do away with the Sheridan BCF Poll.
Click to expand...

:o Yes, I would agree with Taylor-Made.

I'm afraid to ask this to you TSPN gurus:emlaugh:, but if we were to be classified in a new division...:idea:i.e. I-AAA...would that stick? (There IS a I-AAA division in football or somewhere in Division I athletics, check out www.nacda.com for details...not sure if it's non-scholarship, but if it <b>is</b>, just plain bad NESS on that thought, I-AA is where we'll just have to stay, unfortunately...)

***leaves board, disenchanted***
 
Sorry I've been away for a family emergency but I'm back now Shelt the talent level at some 1AA's is not that much greater than some D2's you are correct about that but, even if you compare the best in the Swac and Meac i.e. Southern , Famu, Grambling, NCA&T, Jackson St with the best in the Siac i.e. Tuskegee,Fort vally there is no comparison. I think you guys should be D1aa you all guys would fall right in the middle of the pack with Alcorn, ALA. st , Alabama A&M the teams you beat normally. But my point is if Youngstown a 1AA school beat Marshall a 1A two schools that are others wise comparable other than divisions should Y'stown be rank in the 1A polls I don't think so. So why do we as HBCU'S accept this for our schools we shoudn't that's all I'm saying. ;)
 
Bigtyme,

I just have to disagree with your statement. I think that If you compare the talent level at the best of D1AA schools with the talent level at the best D2 schools, you will find them to be roughly equal. You also tried to compare Youngstown State (D1AA) with Marshall (D1A). I have said that this is definitely not the same thing. The talent level at the top of D1AA comes nowhere close to the talent level at the top of D1A.

Again because S&S did a section on HBCUs, SWAC and MEAC recieved more coverage than other D1AA conferences just as SIAC and CIAA recieved more coverage than other D2 conferences. In this manner S&S did SWAC and MEAC a service rather than a disservice.

We'll agree to disagree. ;)
 
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