Democrats want to raise the minimium wage. Bad ideal

[JSU/99]

Basically all Mak is doing is re-stating what's already been acknowledged. Of course there will be some shift in the cost of doing buisness with a wage increase. No one's disputing that.

But what you're saying in a nutshell is raising the minimum wage will kill small business and the economy itself. If that were the case then we would've never recovered from the first increase. But luckily for us prudent business owners are always prepared for an increase in cost. I'm sure an astute businessman liek yourself already knows that.

The cost of goods and services will always go up. And right now we're living in a time where the costs of basic goods are rising almost daily. The fact is we chose to have a minimum wage in this country. And if you're going to have one, then it needs to be adjusted periodically to reflect the times we live in. That's just reality. The debate shouldn't be if minimum wage should be increased. How often you increase it and by how much you increase it is what the debate should be about. Regardless of where you fall on the issue, no reasonable person should expect the minimum wage to just stay frozen forever.

 

[Makaho 2.0]

Mighty Hornet........

Experience - Active participation in events or activities, leading to the accumulation of knowledge or skill.

Knowledge - Familiarity, awareness, or understanding gained through experience or study.

Opinion - A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof.

Need I say more.......

 

[mighty hornet]

Mighty Hornet........

Experience - Active participation in events or activities, leading to the accumulation of knowledge or skill.

Knowledge - Familiarity, awareness, or understanding gained through experience or study.

Opinion - A belief or conclusion held with confidence but not substantiated by positive knowledge or proof.

Need I say more.......

Yeah, because knowledge can be gained by study too. Don't try to discount that!

 

[Makaho 2.0]

Basically all Mak is doing is re-stating what's already been acknowledged. Of course there will be some shift in the cost of doing buisness with a wage increase. No one's disputing that.

But what you're saying in a nutshell is raising the minimum wage will kill small business and the economy itself. If that were the case then we would've never recovered from the first increase. But luckily for us prudent business owners are always prepared for an increase in cost. I'm sure an astute businessman liek yourself already knows that.

The cost of goods and services will always go up. And right now we're living in a time where the costs of basic goods are rising almost daily. The fact is we chose to have a minimum wage in this country. And if you're going to have one, then it needs to be adjusted periodically to reflect the times we live in. That's just reality. The debate shouldn't be if minimum wage should be increased. How often you increase it and by how much you increase it is what the debate should be about. Regardless of where you fall on the issue, no reasonable person should expect the minimum wage to just stay frozen forever.

99, both Dems and Reps have a plan to raise minimum wage. I have stated the entire time within this forum that there will be a consequence follows.....economics 101 dictates that.

No one has been able to prove me wrong in that regard. I have stated that there will be a consequence that will result in doing so. Now if you are willing to pay for that consequence as a consumer then fine. But a lot of people will simply opt for the venues that can abosorb the costs more adequately, which will kill a lot of small businesses. Minimum wage should be dictated by the individual organization to pay accordingly....if they can't pay a certain wage, then people have the option of not working there.....period.

Again, if you raise the minimum wage, then you will also have to raise other salaries within the company proportianetly. Do you think people that have worked at a company a few years longer and make 3 dollars an hour more will agree to making the same salary as minimum wagers that get their salaries raised to what they make? Hell NO!! The salaries will have to be raised in proportion to the minimum wage raise.

BTW, you never answered my Liberal Arts major question. lol

 

[Makaho 2.0]

Yeah, because knowledge can be gained by study too. Don't try to discount that!

I studied a book on firefighting, I guess I can tell Fiyah how he can do his job better.

I studied a book on trial litigation, I guess I can tell JUSTUS and Seeing Spots how they can better defend their clients or litigate Juris Prudence.

I studied a book on the labors of childbirth, I guess I can tell every single female on this page how they can rear children better.

I guess if you study a book on warfare you can tell me exactly what I went through the entire 7 years I spent in the military.

Again, re-read the definition on Opinion that I posted.

I have opinions on quantam physics, I guess I'm just as qualified to argue them as Stephen Falken then.


Man Please!!!

 

[jag4life]

Makaho...so should Gynecologists all be female?

 

[mighty hornet]

let's see....
I didn't experience slavery, so I know nothing about it and can't voice opinions about it.

You've never experienced being the President of the United States, so you know nothing about it and should have no opinions about it.


It was YOU who just posted that definition of knowledge. Read it again. (and not just the part that you chose to highlight)


and (using your example) if you studied a book on firefighting, I agree that wouldn't qualify you to tell Fiyah how to do his job better, but it would qualify you to have an informed opinion about firefighting, because you have gained some knowledge of it.

With what you're saying, a good heart surgeon will need to have a heart attack first; OR an expert witness in a criminal trial will have to have been a victim of the same crime to have any standing. Or a good NBA or NFL commentator will have to have been in the NBA or NFL first.

sorry, but that doesn't wash. At all.

 

[JSU/99]

99, both Dems and Reps have a plan to raise minimum wage. I have stated the entire time within this forum that there will be a consequence follows.....economics 101 dictates that.

Again restating the obvious. There will be some effect with a raise in minimum wage. But it won't kill the economy liek you're claiming.

Minimum wage should be dictated by the individual organization to pay accordingly....if they can't pay a certain wage, then people have the option of not working there.....period..

Unfortunately our economy doesn't function that way. We dont' allow the individual orgainization to choose whether or not it wants to abide by the lawfully set minimum wage. There's no need for the minimum wage if any org can opt out of it.

Again, if you raise the minimum wage, then you will also have to raise other salaries within the company proportianetly. Do you think people that have worked at a company a few years longer and make 3 dollars an hour more will agree to making the same salary as minimum wagers that get their salaries raised to what they make? Hell NO!! The salaries will have to be raised in proportion to the minimum wage raise.

This only works if wages make a huge jump all at once. I would never agree with a large increase effective immediately. But a modest increase phased in over time wouldn't have the effect you're talking about.

BTW, you never answered my Liberal Arts major question. lol

Poli Sci, c/o 99. Doesn't compete with your Stanford MBA and years of experience but I do my best.

 

[Killer Bees]

After reading the forums, you guys brought up some interesting senarios. Overall I think the issue is should the government dictate what you as a business owner will pay your employee regardless of the type of work? This goes against to ideal of free enterprise. I have owned a business in the past, but never own one where I needed to hire employees (thank God). Bottom line is this, if the government mandates that you will pay your employees $10.00 a hour PERIOD, do you see how this would impact small business? Wal-mart would not get hurt too much by this, but Mom and Pop small business is a totally different story. Not only would they possibly have to let someone go, but they might be force to implement hiring freezes.

 

[jag4life]

After reading the forums, you guys brought up some interesting senarios. Overall I think the issue is should the government dictate what you as a business owner will pay your employee regardless of the type of work? This goes against to ideal of free enterprise. .

You are opening an even bigger can of worms here.....

 

[mighty hornet]

Overall I think the issue is should the government dictate what you as a business owner will pay your employee regardless of the type of work?

Government is only setting a minimum standard for what must be paid.
If you consider that dictating, then :scared:
The government also "dictates" the minimum age to drive, to drink, to vote, etc.



"regardless of the type of work"

Are you suggesting that there are some types of work that shouldn't even get the minimum wage????????

 

[BLAQUE PRINCE]

After reading the forums, you guys brought up some interesting senarios. Overall I think the issue is should the government dictate what you as a business owner will pay your employee regardless of the type of work? This goes against to ideal of free enterprise. I have owned a business in the past, but never own one where I needed to hire employees (thank God). Bottom line is this, if the government mandates that you will pay your employees $10.00 a hour PERIOD, do you see how this would impact small business? Wal-mart would not get hurt too much by this, but Mom and Pop small business is a totally different story. Not only would they possibly have to let someone go, but they might be force to implement hiring freezes.

Now lets suppose the government never steps in and lets businesses drop their pay rates accross the board. Of course they'll compete to lower their operating costs and the worker will end up dayum near getting paid nothing. Who is going to buy the product from the business?

 

[Killer Bees]

Are you suggesting that there are some types of work that shouldn't even get the minimum wage????????

I can't think of any on top of my head. I guess I can see where having a floor set can be beneficial.

 

[mighty hornet]

I guess I can see where having a floor set can be beneficial.

Exactly.
We're talking about the minimum.

 

[Makaho 2.0]

Makaho...so should Gynecologists all be female?

I don't have a Vagina, however, I spend most of my time trying to get into one on a regular basis.

I will never require the services of a gynecologist so a woman might be better suited to answer that question. I don't try to have an opinion on matters that I have no knowledge of, like some people in this forum that try to parlay their unedecated opinion towards subjects they have never had true life experience with.

 

[Fortitude]

<a href='http://www.smileycentral.com/?partner=ZSzeb008_ZSYYYYYYYYUS' target='_blank'><img src='http://smileys.smileycentral.com/cat/10/10_9_136v.gif' border=0></a>

 

[mighty hornet]

I don't try to have an opinion on matters that I have no knowledge of, like some people in this forum that try to parlay their unedecated opinion towards subjects they have never had true life experience with.

damn, I must have missed it when you served as President of the USA. And that "true life experience" is the reason why you have opinions towards subjects dealing with the President and his actions. That's why you can make all these posts about it.

btw, since you only seem to value "true life experience", do you not believe in education and schooling?

 

[Makaho 2.0]

let's see....
I didn't experience slavery, so I know nothing about it and can't voice opinions about it.
Again, you earlier tried to skew the definition of opinion and equate it to being equal to actual experience. If I ever met a 152 year old former slave the last thing I would ever do would be to try to equate my opinion to his experience or knowledge.

You've never experienced being the President of the United States, so you know nothing about it and should have no opinions about it.
And neither have you. Again read the definitions of opinion as it relates to experience......experience trumps opinion. Quit trying to get into some kind of b.s. rigamarole MH.....I might have an opinion about Alpha Phi Alpha......that will never trump your experience in your fraternity. Quit with the b.s. word shift man....youre better than this.


It was YOU who just posted that definition of knowledge. Read it again. (and not just the part that you chose to highlight)
No my brother, it is you who need to re-read those definitions. Again, Experience always trumps Opinion. Knowledge is a byproduct of experience.


and (using your example) if you studied a book on firefighting, I agree that wouldn't qualify you to tell Fiyah how to do his job better, but it would qualify you to have an informed opinion about firefighting, because you have gained some knowledge of it.
Again MH, it's an opinion based on someone elses opinion or experience and not my own. You kinda remind me of those commercials where the guy comes in and gives some commentary as to how to deal with a medical emergency and the people around him ask if he's a doctor and he then says...."No, but I did spend the night at Holiday Inn!" Come on man!

With what you're saying, a good heart surgeon will need to have a heart attack first; OR an expert witness in a criminal trial will have to have been a victim of the same crime to have any standing. Or a good NBA or NFL commentator will have to have been in the NBA or NFL first.
MH, please quit with the sideways talk. In the advent of experience v.s. opinion.....actual life been there, done that, experience always trumps. Quit with the double talk man, you don't really believe that yourself. If you did, you would say James Bell is a great football coach. lol

sorry, but that doesn't wash. At all.
Again MH, true life experience always trumps opinion. Remember what they say about opinion being like a-holes.....everybody has one. But everybody does not have experience in regards to what we have been discussing.

 

[Makaho 2.0]

damn, I must have missed it when you served as President of the USA. And that "true life experience" is the reason why you have opinions towards subjects dealing with the President and his actions. That's why you can make all these posts about it.

btw, since you only seem to value "true life experience", do you not believe in education and schooling?

Bruh, and you have been president I guess at some point?

Read what I said earlier about Experience v.s. Opinion and then come back to me cochise.

 

[mighty hornet]

I think what I'm saying is going over your head.

I used the analogy of you being the President to show that you haven't been President, have no "true experience" of being President, but you have many opinions and knowledge about the President, his decisions, etc. (as demonstrated by your posts on here) Heck, all of us do. And just because we haven't been President doesnt mean these opinions or our knowledge is to be discounted.

by the same token, just because we haven't been a firefighter, and all the other analogies used, we can still have knowledge, we can still be educated, and we can still have valid opinions about it.
You don't have to live it to have knowledge of it.
That's where schooling and education comes in. Again, your definition of knowledge (as posted) is that its gained through experience or study.
If knowlege was solely gained through experience, then education and schooling would be a waste.

 

[HBCUs]

I think what I'm saying is going over your head.

I used the analogy of you being the President to show that you haven't been President, have no "true experience" of being President, but you have many opinions and knowledge about the President, his decisions, etc. (as demonstrated by your posts on here) Heck, all of us do. And just because we haven't been President doesnt mean these opinions or our knowledge is to be discounted.

by the same token, just because we haven't been a firefighter, and all the other analogies used, we can still have knowledge, we can still be educated, and we can still have valid opinions about it.
You don't have to live anything to have knowlege of it.
That's where schooling and education comes in. Again, your definition of knowledge (as posted) is that its gained through experience or study.
If knowlege was solely gained through experience, then education and schooling would be a waste.

I applaud your patience MH. This cat knew that JSU/99's points were sensible, solid and valid, which is why he attempted to invalidate them with his "experience" diversion.

When all else fails in a debate, go off on odd tangents and turn the debate into a pissing contest.

 

[HBCUs]

When all else fails in a debate, go off on odd tangents and turn the debate into a pissing contest.

Although it pains me to admit this, there are some JSU posters who have this technique down to a science. (Must be somethin' in the water. ) For a moment there I thought I was in the Blue Bengal's Den reading a Bell/ Hughes thread. :shh:

 

[Makaho 2.0]

^^ Robin, the Joker and Batman are talking right now, you go see what Batgirl is doing or something. That, or either help Alfred with the Rack of Lamb.lol


Back to MH...

You people do not simply understand basic economics and common business practices. If I raise the minimum wage X amount of dollars, I will then have to raise the other salaries within my business infrastructure. If Norma Ray is gonna make 4 dollars more, then Billy Ray has to be paid proporitinetly.

Yes, this does kill small businesses. I notice that most of you commenting to the contrary have never owned one. Ultimately their bottom line will be affected. It's just that simple.

It seems I would have a better time trying to teach a Chimp Quantam physics than get some of you to understand this basic concept.

But then again, most of you are qualified to give a tracheotomy with a steak knife since you read a book about it once.

And MH, even if you were 6'6" and wearing platform shoes nothing you could ever say could go over my head.

Here ya go man...

:hat:

 

[mighty hornet]

When all else fails in a debate, go off on odd tangents and turn the debate into a pissing contest.

You shole is right.

:smh::smh::smh:

 

[JSU/99]

Mak, please show me where anyone is saying that we should jump the minimum wage $4 dollars. Most of the proposals call for a modest increase spread over a long period of time. If a business can't handle paying its few employees $1 more per hour over the course of 2 years, they shouldn't be in business in the first place. If what you saying were true, the economy would go in the tank every time we had a minimum wage increase. Some things are just common sense, so you can keep all of that nonsense about your firsthand knowledge.

You know, I have no firsthand knowledge of jumping off 20 story buildings. But my common sense tells me if I do, I'm probably not gonna walk away unharmed.