Church Bans Minister for denying membership to homosexual


I guess my question would be is membership being denied to the whoremongers? To the liars, thiefs, backbiters, adulterers? What about the drunkards?

It would seem that the only sins for which you cannot be forgiven is rejection of the Spirit and suicide (because you don't have an opportunity to ask for forgiveness).

Also, how is he a member of the choir w/o being a member of the congregation? Is the church choir a community choir?
 
BLAQUE PRINCE said:
...Nobody said homosexuality is worse than any other sin. The difference is that homosexuals tend to not want their lifestyle viewed as sin...
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Okay, I will say it: Homosexuality (and all sexual sins) are worse than others because of the implications that they bring to the bodies of the participants, the bodies of the potential offspring, and the spiritual scarring that occurs to all involved or affected. No one wants their lifestyle viewed as sin regardless of the flavor. That is not peculiar to homosexuals.

As a pastor, we welcome every homosexual who has the desire into our services. No, as a continuing practicing homosexual, you will not be offered membership status: that would contradict the scriptures. As such, you will not serve in any ministerial capacity, be it usher, choir, or janitor. Come and hear the Word, enjoy the love and fellowship of believers who are not going to beat you down nor condone your abject lifestyle. Knowing the truth will make you free. Once free, you will be able to enjoy the full benefits of membership should you make such an election.

Anyone - from toilet scrubber to Senior Pastor - who is serving in the church and found to be engaging blatently in a sin life practices is subject to review and church discipline from repremand, silencing, suspension, and/or revocation of membership depending on the magnitude and continuation of the offence. Disciples must exercise discipline.
 



Dr H.. said:
He was not obligated to repent to the church "members" since he was not a member of that particular congregation. Let's say "He repented" how many was willing to forgive him and invite him over for Sunday Dinner. How many would have looked at him as being created out of the image of God and not the image as being a homosexual.
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How many folk do you see shunning Donnie McClurkin(sp)? Didn't he openly admit he was gay and repented. Man I know some folk that look and act fruity as a bag of skittles and they treat them just like anyone else in their churches. It would be hard to believe that at some point these folk were not homosexual if they still aren't now.

Ya'll are still reaching.
 
So what ya?ll gonna so with the sinners expel them from the church. What about the deacon or average church member [male] that abuses his wife? Homosexuality is no greater sin than a man having sex with women in the church or the preacher stealing from the offerings.

Whosoever committeth sin transgresseth also the law: for sin is the transgression [contempt and violation of law, iniquity, wickedness] of the law. 1 John 3:4

Anything that a transgression of God?s Law is a ?bad apple? and it can contaminate the entire bushels [congregation]. It?s sad to say most so-called Christians and Churches can tolerate or accept a multitude of sins within the church, but have a problem with homosexuality.

Why is that?

BP

You know what I mean -

What purpose would it serve by repenting, the congregation as well as the preacher has already judged him. That would be like me standing up in a Catholic Church and repenting -
 
OK maybe some of ya'll are not understanding something.

1. The man was never told he could not attend the church
2. He obviously wanted to be saved without repenting.

NO ONE KICKED HIM OUT OF ANYTHING!!!

Will ya'll stop with this "we'll you'd have to kick all the sinners out the church" mess. The church is for sinners who want to change their ways. Do some slip through the cracks of human knowledge YES. But if somebody went up to the pastor and said I want to be saved but I fornicate and I do not plan on stopping I do hope the pastor would turn them around. Thats the difference here. The minister knew the deal before hand and told the man what he should have....he can't become a member if he does not repent.

But no matter what the minster told him GOD has layed a plan for salvation that we must follow. He can get his membership card at this church or whatever but God will have his say on judgment day. That is why I say this crap is a big show. Why are we concerned with the acceptance of man when God had clearly spelled out what he accepts.
 
Golden Kitten said:
I guess my question would be is membership being denied to the whoremongers? To the liars, thiefs, backbiters, adulterers? What about the drunkards?
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Thank you, GK! That's all I was saying in my posts. We as black folks have got to get out of this mindset that some sins are more "tolerable" than others. If we are following the teachings of our faith that many of us claim to cling so tightly to, then we must acknowledge ALL sin as just that, and also realize that we all have sinned and come short of HIS glory!

Like I said, ain't nothin' worse than church hypocrites!! :mad:
 
BLAQUE PRINCE said:
OK maybe some of ya'll are not understanding something.

1. The man was never told he could not attend the church
2. He obviously wanted to be saved without repenting.

NO ONE KICKED HIM OUT OF ANYTHING!!!

Will ya'll stop with this "we'll you'd have to kick all the sinners out the church" mess. The church is for sinners who want to change their ways. Do some slip through the cracks of human knowledge YES. But if somebody went up to the pastor and said I want to be saved but I fornicate and I do not plan on stopping I do hope the pastor would turn them around. Thats the difference here. The minister knew the deal before hand and told the man what he should have....he can't become a member if he does not repent.

But no matter what the minster told him GOD has layed a plan for salvation that we must follow. He can get his membership card at this church or whatever but God will have his say on judgment day. That is why I say this crap is a big show. Why are we concerned with the acceptance of man when God had clearly spelled out what he accepts.
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So, somebody wants to join the church but also continue to sin? Hmm, isn't that Blasphemy?

Blasphemy - Docmump's definition or as I understand it - Is to knowingly go against the will of God. I.E. If God tells us not to steal and we knowingly continue to steal, knowing that it is wrong, that's blasphemy.
 
My only questions is do you kick out the rest of the sinners too? It seems that the gay man was simply a target and a personal disdain from the minister for the gay man's behavior. I don't agree that we should continue to sin. NO, NO, NO. However, if the truth be told and we could see into EVERYBODY's closet, then there is none who is perfect amongst us.

Let he who is without sin, cast the first stone... (NOTICE: IT NEVER SAID WHAT KIND OF SIN....)


Moreover, how many times did Jesus say we are to forgive? And when WE confess our sins to GOD and repent with our mouths...what did he promise to do?

Let me find the scriptchas (scriptures). :goodbad:
 
John 8:7
So when they continued asking Him, He raised Himself up and said to them, ?He who is without sin among you, let him throw a stone at her first.?
John 8:6-8




Matthew 18:21-23 (New King James Version)
21 Then Peter came to Him and said, ?Lord, how often shall my brother sin against me, and I forgive him? Up to seven times?? 22 Jesus said to him, ?I do not say to you, up to seven times, but up to seventy times seven. 23 Therefore the kingdom of heaven is like a certain king who wanted to settle accounts with his servants.
 
Sin is sin. This man has refused to give up his lifestyle as a homosexual. The pastor was right for what he did. If any of us are not willing to give up committing sins intentionally then we are all doomed for hell. Someone mentioned Donnie McClurlin's sexuality...Donnie repented and asked God to forgive him and also to take those feelings away from him. Donnie is a saved man because he had enough sense to ask God for forgiveness. God is still delivering all of us from our sinful ways everyday. We as Chrstians cannot condone Man's way of thinking because the Bible is fulfilling in reference to what God expect from us. We are not to judge, so therefore, we have gotten too caught up in what the world expect and not doing what God has asked us to do. the pastor is not wrong for asking this man to repent and to turn his life over to the Lord. He is only following the scripture and the word of God. This is not being judgemental, this is following the word of God.
 
AAMU Alum said:
Thank you, GK! That's all I was saying in my posts. We as black folks have got to get out of this mindset that some sins are more "tolerable" than others. If we are following the teachings of our faith that many of us claim to cling so tightly to, then we must acknowledge ALL sin as just that, and also realize that we all have sinned and come short of HIS glory!

Like I said, ain't nothin' worse than church hypocrites!! :mad:
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Did you read what Blaque Prince typed?
 
J4J said:
My only questions is do you kick out the rest of the sinners too?
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Nobody kicked him out....that is the whole point.

Creamer said the homosexual man at the center of the dispute had been attending the church for some time and sang in the choir.
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"This person was never discouraged from coming to church. That would be un-Christian. However, actual membership would be another story," he said.
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The man was seeking membership. Now unless someone can tell me different about the Methodist beliefs membership is not just some card or privileges at a particular congregation (which I think alot of people believe). Its being saved. Part of being saved is following the plan to salvation. Part of the plan of salvation is repentance. The guy must not have felt he needed to repent...so how could he be saved. What ya'll are saying is that people should be TOLD that they have been added to the church through whatever way they felt like getting there when its not the truth and not what the bible says. If you aren't going up there with the mentality that you are trying to leave your sinful ways behind then you are not ready to go up there.

Docmump
That is what I am getting at. Homosexuals are pretty much the only group saying they should be saved but not have to turn away from their sin or won't admit that its a sin. No one else goes up to the minister and says I'm a murderer and I plan to continue after I'm saved. Now if the minister does not know they have this intent beforehand then thats different. And if the minister would not have discovered this about the man beforehand he probably would have proceeded. But he must have found out the man either doesn't consider it a sin or refuses to turn away from it. Had this been any other sin we would have all agreed that the person obviously does not understand what it means to come to God. Why do we act like this when it comes to homosexuality?
 
That is what I am getting at. Homosexuals are pretty much the only group saying they should be saved but not have to turn away from their sin or won't admit that its a sin.
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Not true at all, they are targeted because of their belief not only about salvation but also about their right to same sex marriage. However, there are group that attend church every Sunday and Wednesday Night Bible Study. They are the closet sinners, who like, most homosexuals and lesbians does not see anything wrong with their behavior to include some that has been previously mentioned.

I personally know some preachers, if given the opportunity will have sex with every female in the church. I know some that look forward to gospel meetings, so they can sleep with their favorite sister. I know elders that are sleeping with their with young sisters in the church.

Instead of looking at certain sins, we as pastors, preachers and Christians should be condemning every type of sin in the church. Hold up, the reason we cannot, is because we (Christians) are just as guilty as the person setting beside us in Sundays and Wednesdays. There are church members involved with pornography, visiting prostitutes, and infidelity. Guess what, a large percentage are preachers, elders and deacons.

Would you believe in 2001 a survey was conducted by Leadership Journal found that more than one-third of responding pastors had looked at a pornographic Web site within the previous year.

All no some, but all types of sin need to be preached about. To often we just want to focus on homosexuality, what about unscriptural divorce, pre-marital sex, teen pregnancy, parents failing as parents, children not respecting their parents. The biggest sin and the most difficult to eradicate is ?so-called Christians? being ignorant of Gods words. As long as we ?So-Called? Christians focus on some sins and not others then we are no different than the Christians at Corinth, when the apostle Paul called them ?Puffed up?

Some ?So-Called? Christians think they are beyond sin, oh! How wrong they are and it?s easy for a Christian to sin, because we are still fleshy.

A little Levin or a little sin ? the scriptures does not point out a particular sin, but sin itself, ca and often does cause the entire congregation to suffer.

I wondering how many times this same preacher has asked other members to repent.
 



jag4life said:
Did you read what Blaque Prince typed?
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I read what he typed! :xeye:

I co-signed Golden Kitten's post. It was a re-affirmation of what I was posting earlier. For that matter, I co - sign Dr. H. post above as well, especially this part:

All no some, but all types of sin need to be preached about. To often we just want to focus on homosexuality, what about unscriptural divorce, pre-marital sex, teen pregnancy, parents failing as parents, children not respecting their parents. The biggest sin and the most difficult to eradicate is ?so-called Christians? being ignorant of Gods words. As long as we ?So-Called? Christians focus on some sins and not others then we are no different than the Christians at Corinth, when the apostle Paul called them ?Puffed up?
 
Dr H.. said:
Not true at all, they are targeted because of their belief not only about salvation but also about their right to same sex marriage. However, there are group that attend church every Sunday and Wednesday Night Bible Study. They are the CLOSET sinners, who like, most homosexuals and lesbians does not see anything wrong with their behavior to include some that has been previously mentioned.
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My point exacly...you cannot tell someone to fix something if you don't know about it. Most people keep that to themselves. This guy, as alot of other homosexuals appear to be, was open about his refusal to change. If you catch a closet sinner no matter what sin they are guilty of and they refuse to change then they should get the same treatment. Ya'll never answered my question. How many folk do ya'll see go to the minister and say I want to be saved but I fornicate and will continue to do so...and the minister does not turn them around?

I personally know some preachers, if given the opportunity will have sex with every female in the church. I know some that look forward to gospel meetings, so they can sleep with their favorite sister. I know elders that are sleeping with their with young sisters in the church.
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I personaly know some too. I know of one who's story is making it around the congregation and nobody is stepping up to sit him down. That has me just as hot as this homosexual issue. I know of some that use marriage counseling to pick up women. That doesn't make them right nor does it make homosexuality right.

Instead of looking at certain sins, we as pastors, preachers and Christians should be condemning every type of sin in the church.

All no some, but all types of sin need to be preached about. To often we just want to focus on homosexuality, what about unscriptural divorce, pre-marital sex, teen pregnancy, parents failing as parents, children not respecting their parents.
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And once again I ask...what churches are you going to? Are you attending Churches of Christ? As I said before I hear condemnation sermons almost every other Sunday and the LEAST condemed sin is homosexuality. I can almost say without a doubt that I have NEVER heard a sermon on homosexualtiy. If ANYTHING the sins picked on the most are fornication and divorce. Thats why I don't understand why ya'll act like you aint never heard a sermon on sin until the minister says homosexuality....then ya'll go to acting brand new. :shame:


For the last time ain't nobody pickin on no one sin. Quit gettin caught up in the homosexual rights media hype (thats what they want you to do). And even if it WAS the only sin they picked on...two wrongs STILL don't make a right. If we lettin the other sinners through the cracks and not the homosexuals then what good does it do to let the homosexuals through too...we need to be working in the opposite direction.

I don't know about ya'll but I scrutinize a congregation. If I hear something that aint right on Sunday or I find out somethings ain't right about the minister....and nobody is doing anything about it....or they openly accept the lifestyles of sinners...me and the wife move on to another congregation. Yes every congregation will have problems. But there is a VAST difference between a mistake and a lifestyle.
 
AAMU Alum said:
All no some, but all types of sin need to be preached about. To often we just want to focus on homosexuality, what about unscriptural divorce, pre-marital sex, teen pregnancy, parents failing as parents, children not respecting their parents.
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My pastor and pastors in EVERY church I've EVERY been to speak on other sins MUCH more than homosexuality. I've never seen a sermon that focused on homosexuality...EVER. But homosexuals are the only ones who BARK loudly when spoken about.
 
All,
I am waiting for somebody to introduct the doctrine of Justification. I am surprised that we are all talking about one sin is no different then any other but no body is talking about we being justified by faith through grace and since we are justified we are not guilty of the penality of Sin.


If you are confused, lets take this course up a level and talk about why some people how have sinned in the past can talk about the homosexual... It all have to do with Justification.
 
jag4life said:
My pastor and pastors in EVERY church I've EVERY been to speak on other sins MUCH more than homosexuality. I've never seen a sermon that focused on homosexuality...EVER. But homosexuals are the only ones who BARK loudly when spoken about.
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That's my point!



MY QUESTION IS THIS: How long does the man have to learn he must repent and learn to GIVE UP that old self and put on a new self? Is this to be done on the preacher's command or when God moves that gay man's heart?
 
And speaking of Sin. Have we forgotten the FOUR P's of SIN?

If you dont know, let's discuss.

The other day somebody spoke on going from milk to meat, well lets start that process. Lets learn a little more about our walk with God and what it means to walk with God.
 
docmump said:
If you are confused, lets take this course up a level and talk about why some people how have sinned in the past can talk about the homosexual... It all have to do with Justification.
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Please elaborate.
 
Explain Doc. I was the somebody who talked about going from the milk to the meat!

That gay man is at a stage of moving from milk to meat. He was not ready yet. In my Bible Study class we talked about going from milk to meat. I decided to try. I realize, though, that just because I DECIDED, does not mean I decide for every one else.

There is an issue in Christianity that I struggle with and that is speaking in tongues. ( I have read all the scriptures and my opinion just has not changed about it.) At one time I would not even let a person touch me who was speaking in those wild tongues and was angry about an incident that occurred in a local church. However, some time has passed. I still have my thoughts about it, but my heart is softer to the idea. I wouldn't even let somebody try to coerse me into speaking. I still don't speak it and most of the time roll my eyes when others do it near me....but my heart is softer. I think God had something to do with that. So who knows? In 10 years, I might not have an issue with it at all. However, I laid that particular concern on the altar and told God that when he saw I was able to handle/understand and accept that, on the altar it will be. So far, I still have issues but my mind is changing slowly.

I suggest to you that, that man may be in the same boat...struggling to understand. Donnie McClurkin had a struggle (Just saw it on BET Sunday...). He overcame because Minister Winans helped him (God's angel, in MY EYES)...and another lady in his life taught him to remove those things from himself..."stop swishing his hands"..."stop walking with a twist"...etc. It took time. A long time...
 
Fortitude said:
Please elaborate.
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Baptist Article of Faith: Number 5.
V. OF JUSTIFICATION
We believe that the great gospel blessing which Christ26 secures to such as believe in him is Justification;27 that Justification includes the pardon of sin,28 and the promise of eternal life on principles of righteousness;29 that it is bestowed, not in consideration of any works of righteousness which we have done, but solely through faith in the Redeemer's blood;30 by virtue of which faith his perfect righteousness is freely imputed to us of God;31 that it brings us into a state of most blessed peace and favor with God, and secures every other blessing needful for time and eternity.32

Places in the Bible where taught.
27. John 1:16; Eph. 3:8
28. Acts 13:39; Isa. 3:11-12; Rom. 8:1
29. Rom. 5:9; Zech. 13:1; Matt. 9:6; Acts 10:43
30. Rom. 5:17; Titus 3:5-6; 1 Pet. 3:7; 1 John 2:25; Rom. 5:21
31. Rom. 4:4-5; 5:21; 6:28; Phil. 3:7-9
32. Rom. 5:19; 3:24-26; 4:23-25; 1 John 2:12​

Since, those who confesses Christ is now Justified, some feel that there sins are wiped clean, and they are correct. Although all sins are gone that still doesn't exempt us from sin. Some also doesn't that Homosexuality, is a lifestyle sin.
 
J4J said:
That gay man is at a stage of moving from milk to meat. He was not ready yet.
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If he wasn't ready and the minister knew this then he told him the truth. Should the minister have lied to him and told him he was saved even though he does not intend to give up his sinful ways?

The man was attending the church. He does not have to be a member to learn the same things the everyone else in the church learns.
 
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