Church Bans Minister for denying membership to homosexual


major095

ASU4real
TESTING THE FAITH
Pastor denies membership
to homosexual, gets canned
Methodist cleric suspended from pulpit
for 1 year for 'living out his conscience'

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Posted: July 30, 2005
1:00 a.m. Eastern



? 2005 WorldNetDaily.com

A pastor who denied church membership to a homosexual has been banished from the pulpit and denied his salary for one year by the Virginia Annual Conference of the United Methodist Church, despite the admission he acted on his conscience and his action could be defended "in theory" from the Methodist Book of Discipline.

Rev. Edward Johnson, former pastor of South Hill United Methodist Church for the past six years, will appeal his suspension to the denomination's highest court in Houston in late October.

The action leading to the pastor's "involuntary leave of absence" was initiated by Rev. W. Anthony Layman, retired district superintendent for Johnson's region in rural Southside Virginia, following Johnson's December refusal to allow a homosexual man to join his congregation.

Layman told United Methodist News Service he and other conference officials "did all we could do to help [Johnson] see the inconsistency of his stance in his ministry" before filing a complaint against him in April.


"I was trying to show him the church was open to receiving [the member]," Layman said. "He, in turn, relied on his interpretation of the scriptures."

Layman's complaint to a denominational board resulted in a recommended one-year suspension for Johnson. The Virginia Conference approved the recommendation for punishment on June 13 by a 418-114 vote, with eight abstentions.

"For me, this was the last recourse," Layman said. "Johnson had two opportunities to receive the person into membership himself or allow the associate pastor to do it. He would do neither. It was this act of insubordination that put him on notice."

"Our Social Creed says that we as a church would not ordain homosexuals, but they have the right to be received in membership," Layman said. "The church supports homosexuals as part of the congregation and as persons of definite worth.

"Johnson has deep beliefs around this issue," Layman said. "He is a man of integrity who is living out his conscience."

The Methodist Book of Discipline directs congregations that membership cannot be denied to anyone based on "race, nationality, economic condition or status." According to Carole Vaughn, director of communications for the Virginia Conference, Johnson could "in theory" use his own judgment in deciding whether "status" applied to homosexuals.

During the June disciplinary session, Bishop Charlene Kammerer was questioned as to whether it was lawful for a pastor to "receive into the membership of a local United Methodist church anyone who is able to receive the vow, affirm the vow and promises to fulfill the vow, and who, at the same time, acknowledges and impenitently practices homosexual relations?" She did not answer the question directly, but, according to the minutes, said the bishop and superintendents were charged with giving guidance, as they had done in Rev. Johnson's case.

Kammerer also was asked if the language in the Book of Discipline gave "Johnson the right and responsibility to exercise responsible pastoral judgment in determining who may be received into church membership of a local church." According to the minutes of the meeting, Kammerer ruled "negative in this case."

By suspending Johnson, noted Vaughn, the church's leaders were vetoing the pastor's decision.

"In a layperson's terms, it would be sort of like being temporarily suspended," she said.

Gary Creamer, a member of Johnson's South Hill church, is standing behind his former pastor and says many other members are as well.

"I feel Rev. Johnson was holding to biblical principle in denying membership to that individual," Creamer told VaNCNews. "I feel extremely sad and grieved. I feel a terrible injustice was done."

Creamer said the homosexual man at the center of the dispute had been attending the church for some time and sang in the choir.

"This person was never discouraged from coming to church. That would be un-Christian. However, actual membership would be another story," he said.

"The church is not upholding the biblical principles outlined in Leviticus, 2 Timothy and Corinthians about homosexuality and the sins thereof," he added.

"I cannot see how you can take Holy Communion and openly practice that lifestyle. The Bible says homosexuality is a sin. Now everybody sins, but we like to think that everybody who is a member of the United Methodist Church is attempting to repent of their sins. Openly practicing homosexuality is not an attempt to repent of sins, in my opinion."

The decision to suspend Johnson was done without taking the local congregation into account, said Creamer.

"I just feel like the congregation as a whole was ignored," he said. "I don't think anyone had any idea of the gravity of what was going on."

Bishop Kammerer confirmed Creamer's complaint the congregation was excluded, saying clergy matters are not subject to local congregations' input.

"He is accountable to the annual conference as a clergy member. He is not subject to any one local church," she said. "As Rev. Johnson's bishop, I wish he and his family well and pray for healing in the life of the congregation in South Hill."

Johnson could, Kammerer says, be reinstated as a United Methodist pastor in good standing if he fulfills recommendations from the conference's board of ordained ministry.



Kammerer, whose Virginia Conference is under the Southeast Jurisdiction of the United Methodist Church, chairs the committee that governs a North Carolina conference and retreat facility slated for a four-day pro-homosexuality rally over Labor Day weekend, organized by the group Reconciling Congregations.

According to conservative Methodist activist Mark Tooley, one forum will "explore the development of transgender and gender queer spirituality" as well as the "sources of gendering." Participants are encouraged to "come with a robust interest in all things gender, whether or not they themselves are gender non-normative."
 
Sometimes I feel like the church is going crazy!! This pastor was absolutely right. I understand that the world is going to say do what ever makes u feel good and that "there's nothing wrong with homosexuality", but the church has got to be different. He didn't deny them the right to come, which I feel he could have. It sounds like, or at least I believe, that he talked to this person enough to find out that they were openly participating in a homosexual lifestyle and continued to do so. I hope we all understand that this is not just about homosexuality but all sin. If any of us is refusing to acknowledge that something that we are doing is a sin and are intent on continuing on that path we shouldn't be allowed to be apart of the church. Unbelievable!!
 



Exclusion is not my interpretation of Christ's teachings. The pastor knew the UMC position on this issue. If he could not abide by their ruling he should have left and moved to a denomination or start a congregation that's supported his views.
 
A pastor who denied church membership to a homosexual?.
"Our Social Creed says that we as a church would not ordain homosexuals,

This kind of behavior is why ?mankind? has messed up the Lords Church. A preacher of anyone else cannot deny a person ?membership? in the Lords Church. This is why I often question the scriptural existence of denominations. I am wondering if he would have the same opinion of a drug dealer, prostitute, lesbians or anyone else that indulge in ?non ? Christian? behavior. If he did the pews would be empty on Sundays.


The only ?creed? that should guide the operation of the church is the bible and not the ignorance of mankind.

This is why I am glad the God makes the decision and not man.

Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved. Acts 2:47
 
Dr H.. said:
This kind of behavior is why ?mankind? has messed up the Lords Church. A preacher of anyone else cannot deny a person ?membership? in the Lords Church. This is why I often question the scriptural existence of denominations. I am wondering if he would have the same opinion of a drug dealer, prostitute, lesbians or anyone else that indulge in ?non ? Christian? behavior. If he did the pews would be empty on Sundays.


The only ?creed? that should guide the operation of the church is the bible and not the ignorance of mankind.

This is why I am glad the God makes the decision and not man.

Praising God, and having favour with all the people. And the Lord added to the church daily such as should be saved. Acts 2:47

H,
The funny part is all the posts saying the Pastor was right in his stand. :lol:

The Church is like a hospital for the sick. We should not deny anybody that needs treatment. If that person is a homosexual, he should be admitted. If that person is a drug dealer, prostitute, lesbians or anyone else that is a sinner or is not saved should be admited.

Too many of us Christian believe that the Church is strictly for the SAVED. It is not. "Our mission is to go out and catch the fish, then clean the fish. Our problem, in the Church, is we want to go out and only catch a clean fish."
 
That pastor was WRONG!

How can he be healed of homosexuality if he is denied entry into the House of the Lord? He can be prayed for? He can commune with God's saints.
 
Many churches have become dens of hypocrisy and hate, rather than salvation and understanding. If he felt that homosexuality is a sin, why would he in turn not allow a homosexual who was seeking salvation into the church?

I wonder how he feels about priests who have molested young boys over the past 40 - plus years.
 
doc, J4J, Alum

You know you?re right ? we all were sick and had a first class to hell on a non-stop train before we were saved and now folks are acting like they were born saved.

Now I understand what Peter said

"And if the righteous scarcely be saved, where shall the ungodly and the sinner appear?" 1 Peter 4:18

This person was may have been seeking salvation, meaning seeking full delivery from something [homosexuality] and someone [Satan] from impending danger [being eternally lost].

We all were in his shoe [sinful] and needed to be saved ? only a sick person [sinner] needs a doctor [Jesus] and a prescription [the word]. We do not realize how sick this world is, we are desperately ill [Isa. 1:6; Mt. 9:2]. It?s sad to say, but most of those ill are in the hospital [church].

It irritates me to know that a "so-called" preacher has been given the right [not by God, Jesus or The Holy Spirit] to deny entrance into the church. I do not mean any harm but if this is the creed of the UMC, then I can say according to God's word, this is not a church authorized or recognized by God.

"Our mission is to go out and catch the fish, then clean the fish. Our problem, in the Church, is we want to go out and only catch a clean fish."

I need to use this in my next sermon.

The other said part is we all say "We are created in the image of God" and that is true. However, when are we going to start seeing the image of God and stop looking at the other image. That being our falts and mishaps, as soon as we walk in church we should see then image of God and not Ms. Jones, because she is wearing a dress to short or the person that has body odor or wearing soiled clothes.
 
QUESTION: We all seem to agree that the House of the Lord is where we can learn to become "clean". What if a person is homosexual and has come and is NOT denied entry, YET he remains homosexual. Can he be denied the opportunity to be choir director, usherboard director, or praise and worship team leader?


JUST A QUESTION: Please expound.
 
J4J said:
QUESTION: We all seem to agree that the House of the Lord is where we can learn to become "clean". What if a person is homosexual and has come and is NOT denied entry, YET he remains homosexual. Can he be denied the opportunity to be choir director, usherboard director, or praise and worship team leader?


JUST A QUESTION: Please expound.
J4J, what are you trying to start up in hea, up in hea? :lol:
 
THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT IM TALKING ABOUT

The article says the guy had been going to the church for some time and even in the choir. No one turned him away or denied him that. So we can drop the mess about the church turning away people instead of trying to help them. It appears he was there enough to get the same message that every Christian in the congregation got. We want to compare the church to a place for the sick...but a doctor WILL refuse to treat you if you continue to ignore his instructions.

The problem appears to be that he wanted to be added to the church but refused to repent of his sins. How can you....or better yet WHY would you want to be added to the church when part of that is repenting. What would be the purpose?

The church did not exclude him or discriminate. They told the man the truth.
 
[No Lie] one local preacher said "we should welcome the drug dealers, maybe we can show them there is a better way to earn a living" and in the next breath he was bashing the homosexuals. The only reason he wanted the drug dealers, was because of their donations and later on it was made public that they was using the church as a way of money laundering.

As I said before double standards -

"The problem appears to be that he wanted to be added to the church but refused to repent of his sins. How can you....or better yet WHY would you want to be added to the church when part of that is repenting. What would be the purpose?"

He was not obligated to repent to the church "members" since he was not a member of that particular congregation. Let's say "He repented" how many was willing to forgive him and invite him over for Sunday Dinner. How many would have looked at him as being created out of the image of God and not the image as being a homosexual.

The other question is, did / do he understand what it mean to repent. You would be surprised to learn that the church is full of people that does not understand what it means to repent.
 



The bottom line of this issue is:

Shouldn't homosexuals be allowed to worship just like us "saved" folks? Why deny those that are often ostrasized as "hell bound" from at least finding the peace and solace that WE ALL should be privy to in our houses of worship...whatever they may be? Hell, if you're gonna kick gays out because of their sin, then you might as well get ready to open the doors and empty the churches altogether.


I can't stand hypocritical "righteous" folks! :mad: Sounds too much like the republikooks currently running this country into the ground!
 
BLAQUE PRINCE said:
THIS IS EXACTLY WHAT IM TALKING ABOUT

The article says the guy had been going to the church for some time and even in the choir. No one turned him away or denied him that. So we can drop the mess about the church turning away people instead of trying to help them. It appears he was there enough to get the same message that every Christian in the congregation got. We want to compare the church to a place for the sick...but a doctor WILL refuse to treat you if you continue to ignore his instructions.

The problem appears to be that he wanted to be added to the church but refused to repent of his sins. How can you....or better yet WHY would you want to be added to the church when part of that is repenting. What would be the purpose?

The church did not exclude him or discriminate. They told the man the truth.
Interesting points. :nod:
 
AAMU Alum said:
The bottom line of this issue is:

Shouldn't homosexuals be allowed to worship just like us "saved" folks? Why deny those that are often ostrasized as "hell bound" from at least finding the peace and solace that WE ALL should be privy to in our houses of worship...whatever they may be? Hell, if you're gonna kick gays out because of their sin, then you might as well get ready to open the doors and empty the churches altogether.

He WAS allowed to worship. He even sang in the choir. What else can he ask for? I believe the minster simply said I cannot stand for someone who is coming to Christ by their own means...skipping the idea or repentance. I mean if thats the case why don't we just drop the idea of confession or any other part of the process and everybody just say their saved and be done with it.

I KNOW everybody here understands that there is a difference between attending church service and becoming a memeber of the church.....right?
 
J4J said:
QUESTION: We all seem to agree that the House of the Lord is where we can learn to become "clean". What if a person is homosexual and has come and is NOT denied entry, YET he remains homosexual. Can he be denied the opportunity to be choir director, usherboard director, or praise and worship team leader?


JUST A QUESTION: Please expound.
I understand where you're going with that, and I believe that they shouldn't serve in those positions because it would give the appearance that the church is condoning their lifestyle. I feel that that would be "out of order". To me, that would be like a church accepting a grip of money from a drug dealer, just because he was a member. Its still drug money and by accepting it the church would in essence be saying that his lifestyle is OK with them. Especially if they know what their doing.

I would feel the same way if the person is a known adulterer, fornicator, child abuser, etc.
 
I KNOW everybody here understands that there is a difference between attending church service and becoming a memeber of the church.....right?

Yes and no, you know there are some "join" based on Christian experience, by letter of recommendation from another preacher and so on...

Only God can add a person to The Church..


Jagg

Some of the "play actors" are the preachers. They cover their lifestyle by not preaching about certain topics in the bible.
 
BLAQUE PRINCE said:
He WAS allowed to worship. He even sang in the choir. What else can he ask for? I believe the minster simply said I cannot stand for someone who is coming to Christ by their own means...skipping the idea or repentance. I mean if thats the case why don't we just drop the idea of confession or any other part of the process and everybody just say their saved and be done with it.

I KNOW everybody here understands that there is a difference between attending church service and becoming a memeber of the church.....right?


In that same vein, are all the other members of this church being admonished to come forth and repent for their sins? See where I'm going with this? If we are indeed following the doctrine of the Bible, then one sin is no greater or no less than another. I know most of us don't feel that way, but therein again is where this minister's hypocrisy raises its head if he is not insisting that others are not made to do the same thing.
 
major095 said:
I hope we all understand that this is not just about homosexuality but all sin. If any of us is refusing to acknowledge that something that we are doing is a sin and are intent on continuing on that path we shouldn't be allowed to be apart of the church.

the pastor's resposibility is to the church, that is, the people and the institution. he can't let one rotten apple spoil the entire bunch. If this young man refuses to recongnize that what he is doing is sin and will not repent then he has no place there. Make no mistake the church is for the sick, the sinful, and that's why we are all there. I understand the things in my behavior that are sinful and I work on them, I acknowledge they are wrong and try and correct them, but If u refuse to do that then why are u at church? it is not a social club.

Now if the pastor did not have this conversation with the guy before he denied him admission, that's a problem. My father is a pastor and we've talked about the treatment of gays by the Church. Overall I believe they haven't done enough to support those who are Christian that struggle with homosexuality. Struggle!!! But for those who are comfortable with their homosexuality and do not want to change and want to operate in the Christian world, there is a problem and this extends to all of us who hold on, unrepentantly, to some sin. Example...If an axe murder wants to join the church it's ok as long as he understands that what he has done is wrong and is seeking Gods help to not do it again. He might (we pray not) and that's ok (moses and david turned out aiight). But if he wants to join and says, "I see nothing wrong with it and plan to do it again tonight"....well, call the police and lock that brother out.
 
Well, I don't think they should be banned. However, I know of someone being "sat down" and "getting run off"....from positions of leadership. Still allowed to worship but could not lead based on that scripture about the bishop presenting himself holy and...etc
 
AAMU Alum said:
In that same vein, are all the other members of this church being admonished to come forth and repent for their sins? See where I'm going with this? If we are indeed following the doctrine of the Bible, then one sin is no greater or no less than another. I know most of us don't feel that way, but therein again is where this minister's hypocrisy raises its head if he is not insisting that others are not made to do the same thing.

WHAT?????

Maybe some folk go to church and only hear the choir but I hear lessons on how to live a Godly life. I hear lessons speaking against fornication, divorce....etc. In fact homosexuality is the least preached topic that I can think of (probably because its the easiest to understand that its wrong). Almost EVERY other lesson is about repenting of SOME sin. So why do we act like this is the first time we've heard an anti-sin messages when homosexuality is brought up? Seriously...what is being taught in some of these churches every Sunday.....prosperity????

Like I said before. The church is composed of a group of sinners. The question is what are you trying to do about your sins. Nobody said homosexuality is worse than any other sin. The difference is that homosexuals tend to not want their lifestyle viewed as sin.

Ya'll are really startin to reach to try and prove this discrimination thing.
 
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