Apaquelypse
Delta Tau 04
Can they really be seperated? Can one really flourish without the other? How effective is THE CHURCH that cant influence politicial decisions?
Church and State
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ROYAL BLUE
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What is a nation?
Apaquelypse
Delta Tau 04
ROYAL BLUE
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Genesis 12:1 "Now the Lord had said unto Abram, "Get thee out of thy country, and from thy kindred, and from thy father's house, unto a land that I will shew thee:"
Genesis 12:2 "And I will make of thee a great nation(race of people), and I will bless thee, and make thy name great; and thou shalt be a blessing:"
God will give Abram a new name, which we will see in chapter seventeen, and that name is the "father of all nations(all races of people)".
Genesis 18:18 "Seeing that Abraham shall surely become a great and mighty nation(race of people), and all the nations(all race of people) of the earth shall be blessed in him(AMERICA)?"
I can't break it down any further than what you read and see with your own eyes. Look around my friend and you will find that America is a blessing to all people of the world, the land of milk and honey. God's word is true and you're living in the nation of Abraham. All you have to do is take a closer look with the help of God.
ROYAL BLUE
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Exodus 32:7 "And the Lord said to Moses, "Go get thee down; for thy people, which thou broughtest out of the land of Egypt, have corrupted themselves:"
Exodus 32:8 "They have turned aside quickly out of thy way which I commanded them: they have made them a molten calf, and have worshipped it, and have sacrificed thereunto, and said, `These be thy gods, O Israel, which have brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.' "
Exodus 32:9 "And the Lord said unto Moses, "I have seen this people, and behold, it is a stiffnecked people:"(HARD HEADED)
1) hard, cruel, severe, obstinate
a) hard, difficult
b) severe
c) fierce, intense, vehement
d) stubborn, stiff of neck, stiff-necked
e) rigorous (of battle)
Exodus 32:10 "Now therefore let Me alone, that My wrath may wax hot against them: and that I may consume them: and I will make of thee(Moses) a great nation(race of people)."
Exodus 32:11 "And Moses besought the Lord his God, and said, "Lord, why doth Thy wrath wax hot against Thy people, which Thou hast brought forth out of the land of Egypt with great power, and with a mighty hand?"
http://www.theseason.org/exodus/exodus32.htm
Does this sound like a race of people you know in our own country?
Exodus 32:8 "They have turned aside quickly out of thy way which I commanded them: they have made them a molten calf, and have worshipped it, and have sacrificed thereunto, and said, `These be thy gods, O Israel, which have brought thee up out of the land of Egypt.' "
Exodus 32:9 "And the Lord said unto Moses, "I have seen this people, and behold, it is a stiffnecked people:"(HARD HEADED)
1) hard, cruel, severe, obstinate
a) hard, difficult
b) severe
c) fierce, intense, vehement
d) stubborn, stiff of neck, stiff-necked
e) rigorous (of battle)
Exodus 32:10 "Now therefore let Me alone, that My wrath may wax hot against them: and that I may consume them: and I will make of thee(Moses) a great nation(race of people)."
Exodus 32:11 "And Moses besought the Lord his God, and said, "Lord, why doth Thy wrath wax hot against Thy people, which Thou hast brought forth out of the land of Egypt with great power, and with a mighty hand?"
http://www.theseason.org/exodus/exodus32.htm
Does this sound like a race of people you know in our own country?
ROYAL BLUE
New Member
Can you not see that God was heated with these people? Can you not see God getting heated with the abominations we try and force on our NATION.
Remember, "IN GOD WE TRUST" and "ONE NATION UNDER GOD." Do you not remember this song in school?
God's signature is on our great nation and it is He that brought us this far. We didn't make ourselves a great nation......God did. He said He would do it thousands of years ago and you're living the dream. You could have been born in a heathen nation but God placed you in a blessed nation such as ours and yet people have turned their backs on God. They're trying to kick God out of His own nation and discredit His work for keeping a promise He made to "Father Abraham" thousands of years ago. There is no separation of God and His mighty nation in which He nourished and made it the only super power on earth. Man can't do that by themselves but God can.
Remember, "IN GOD WE TRUST" and "ONE NATION UNDER GOD." Do you not remember this song in school?
God's signature is on our great nation and it is He that brought us this far. We didn't make ourselves a great nation......God did. He said He would do it thousands of years ago and you're living the dream. You could have been born in a heathen nation but God placed you in a blessed nation such as ours and yet people have turned their backs on God. They're trying to kick God out of His own nation and discredit His work for keeping a promise He made to "Father Abraham" thousands of years ago. There is no separation of God and His mighty nation in which He nourished and made it the only super power on earth. Man can't do that by themselves but God can.
illinijag
Called to Serve
Yes. The true Church (not the local church) is, can and should be separated from the State (world). The true church is obedient to God not to a worldly system. The true church does not compromise to that which is adverse to God?s Law..
- The True Church can and will flourish. We need to be clear on the true meaning of a flourishing or prosperous church, it is not base on the size of membership or worldly standards but on their relationship to God, obedience has its rewards. However, there is a cost that the righteous will pay (2 Tim. 2:12/Matt. 5:10-12).
- The state (world) in its nature, is subject to God?s law. Absence of being obedient to God's law, any form of Government is doom to failure. Just take a look at past Dynasties..Rome, England, Greece, Egypt, Babylon...and many more, all now can only see their glory as footnotes in history.
If the church is obedient, it will influence the State (world) in terms of conviction. However, in most cases overtime, the State (world) will go its natural way, which is never consistent with Gods way.
The REAL PROBLEM IS WHEN THE STATE (world) INFLUENCES THE CHURCH.If this continues, the compromising Church or the lack thereof will loose the power to restrain evil and God?s grace will up and leave. This is happening here (in the US) at a rate that will assure our imminent destruction.
God gave us the best example of Man's Government and God?s Law with the Nation of Israel (read the old Testament), this is the best of what a Church and State can achieve. This was a Theocracy, a true religious state ruled by GOD and his laws; the only problem was Man.
Only when Jesus reign on earth will Church and State work in synergy.
James 4:4. Ye adulterers and adulteresses, know ye not that the friendship of the world is enmity with God? whosoever therefore will be a friend of the world is the enemy of God.
Clarification: The True Church is the Body of Christ which consist of those that are truly God?s Elect. The True Church may consist of those that are in the Local Church Congregation; However, all that are members of the Local Church Congregation are not saved and are not members of God?s elect.
Matthew 20:16. ??.. for many be called, but few chosen.
Attack Dog
Well-Known Member
When we talk about the separation of Church and state we are looking at the relationship between the Church of Rome and England. Divorce being illegal under Catholic law, Henry the 8th broke away from the church and created the Church of England or Anglican Church. Before this time, no move was made within the kingdoms of Europe without the approval of the Church (this included the sanctioning of the slave trade). The priests were extremely wealthy. Henry believed that the monarch should be the absolute ruler of the kingdom and should have authority over the church. He began a method of religious persecution that would lead to the development of Protestantism and the Puritan colonies in the new world.
Jesus said something to the effect that one should render unto Ceasar what is his. This was a tricky answer to a tricky question. Yes, give Ceasar his do, but know that God created all. When there is conflict God's law "trumps" man's law. When man's law is contrary to God's law it is the responsibility of the church to stand up. God sent prophets to all of the kings of Israel to advise them, but when they strayed God punished them and/or their descendants. I feel that God still sents messengers, in various forms, to our leaders today. However, it is up to our leaders to make the decisions and deal with the consequences.
illinijag
Called to Serve
Excellent comment.
We have something that is even greater than past prophets and/or messengers. We have the complete word of God (The Bible).
Luke 12:48. But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more.
ROYAL BLUE
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:tup::tup:
ROYAL BLUE
New Member
:tup::tup:
Which means we know better, and there will be a heavy price to pay for knowing better and continuing in evil.