Black Colleges Disappoint Again on NFL Draft Weekend


jstate83 said:
JR. :goof:

You know you could put all 10 SWAC teams together for a weekend and our party atmosphere could not even mess with Miss State and Ole Miss. Those mofo's up there in North Mississippi are insane when it come to football party weekends so you know what a LSU, Bamma, Ohio State, or Penn State weekend is like. :lmao:
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I am not shocked. Now for regular student that is black, they might not enjoy partying with them white folks. But for the ball players who are the big shots on campus, that life aint bad. Not that they can party with the students before the game. But you know what I mean when it comes to overall activities. At Ohio State, there were enough black students to get their swerve on at the parties. Plus the fraternities and sororities were off the chain. As a matter of fact I used to keep in touch with our frat Eric Spann when he was in Cincy working for P&G while I was in C-bus. He can tell you some stories about his Que frat bruhs and their parties he came to at OSU. I know LSU can party. They were partying like crazy even when I was at SU. I remember some of the KKPSI bruhs over there invited us over to some of their other Fraternity parties during their frat week and it was bananas at those houses. Now I will say this. When I was at SU. We would give anyone a run for their money as far as partying on campus. It wasn't just reserved for football weekends. We had a blast back in the 80s. Remember it was legal to drink in La at 18 when I arrived on the yard. Daiquiri shop send help. LOL. Just seems like our campuses aint the same overall anymore. I remember how the plaza used to be at JSU. Don't know how it is now.
 
mighty hornet said:
I TOTALLY disagree with the atmosphere at those schools being the end all, be all of partying and fun on game day/wknd. Especially for "us" And definitely not the MCC.
:D
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I think they were talking for the ball players and the partying done year round. I will agree it is not the end all be all for regular black students at those schools. The ball players miss out on game day partying anyway at any of the schools. Game partying at the MCC can't be matched by a PWC for a black kid who is regular student. When you get to party with that many black folks at something like the MCC. There is no PWC that can match it. You don't have to go find a "clique" of black folks to hang with vs being at tailgates at the PWCs. But if you are a ball player, game time partying is no biggie no matter where you are.
 



JR said:
I am not shocked. Now for regular student that is black, they might not enjoy partying with them white folks. But for the ball players who are the big shots on campus, that life aint bad. Not that they can party with the students before the game. But you know what I mean when it comes to overall activities. At Ohio State, there were enough black students to get their swerve on at the parties. Plus the fraternities and sororities were off the chain. As a matter of fact I used to keep in touch with our frat Eric Spann when he was in Cincy working for P&G while I was in C-bus. He can tell you some stories about his Que frat bruhs and their parties he came to at OSU. I know LSU can party. They were partying like crazy even when I was at SU. I remember some of the KKPSI bruhs over there invited us over to some of their other Fraternity parties during their frat week and it was bananas at those houses. Now I will say this. When I was at SU. We would give anyone a run for their money as far as partying on campus. It wasn't just reserved for football weekends. We had a blast back in the 80s. Remember it was legal to drink in La at 18 when I arrived on the yard. Daiquiri shop send help. LOL. Just seems like our campuses aint the same overall anymore. I remember how the plaza used to be at JSU. Don't know how it is now.
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True. True.

You also have to remember that schools like Mississippi State have more African American students than Alcorn and Valley. They practically have an HBCU on campus in terms of numbers. If they don't want to party with the white folks, that's no problem. Between Black greeks and just kicking it with each other, they are partying just as hard. Don't think the Black students are just sitting around twiddling their thumbs. :lol:
 
JR said:
I am not shocked. Now for regular student that is black, they might not enjoy partying with them white folks. But for the ball players who are the big shots on campus, that life aint bad. Not that they can party with the students before the game. But you know what I mean when it comes to overall activities. At Ohio State, there were enough black students to get their swerve on at the parties. Plus the fraternities and sororities were off the chain. As a matter of fact I used to keep in touch with our frat Eric Spann when he was in Cincy working for P&G while I was in C-bus. He can tell you some stories about his Que frat bruhs and their parties he came to at OSU. I know LSU can party. They were partying like crazy even when I was at SU. I remember some of the KKPSI bruhs over there invited us over to some of their other Fraternity parties during their frat week and it was bananas at those houses. Now I will say this. When I was at SU. We would give anyone a run for their money as far as partying on campus. It wasn't just reserved for football weekends. We had a blast back in the 80s. Remember it was legal to drink in La at 18 when I arrived on the yard. Daiquiri shop send help. LOL. Just seems like our campuses aint the same overall anymore. I remember how the plaza used to be at JSU. Don't know how it is now.
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YEP.

I remember getting those Gallon jugs of draft beer, 2 cups for $3.99, sitting under the frat tree on the yard drinking til practice time after we ate dinner at 5pm. Alcohol was never a problem for students and even the police back then. I know I personally got pulled over many times comming from FREDDY's or the NEW EDITION after a keg party, DRUNK AS A SKUNK, WITH OPEN BEER/ALCOHOL IN THE CAR , and being let go by the cops every time with a "warning" to get on campus and stay there.

All they would do is make us pour out the open beer and put the rest in the trunk. :lol:
 
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JR said:
But can you blame them with some of the sad arse coaching we got? I love our HBCUs. But we don't have the Coach Rob's, Gorden's, Casem's, and others anymore roaming our sidelines. So just like our talent level is down. So is our coaching level. Which in some ways worse than our talent. I saw some kids get drafted that didn't even start at those FBS schools. Case in point, one of the LSU DBs who was not a full time starter got drafted. Mo Claiborne and the Honey Badger were there starting CBs. But the 3rd CB got drafted.
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In all honesty, I really think our coaching/mentoring exceeds theirs. I know we question some of the schemes and calls, but from a fundamental standpoint I see our athletes executing (technique wise) as well as those other cats. The only thing is they are (for the most part) more talented and quantitatively superior...it ain't the disparity in coaching. At our HBCU's if a "good high school player" doesn't pan out, the knock is that he didn't get good coaching. When the 4 & 5 star kid doesn't cut it at the BCS programs, the tendency is to say "He was overrated" or the level of competition was too great. They don't develop talent, they refine it a bit but instead of having to play "catch up" teaching fundamentals, they can instead focus on making kids know their alignment and assignments. Often times the kids are in position to make the play, but their ability is limited. We put that on the coaches...maybe sometimes a bit too much. (just my 2cents).
 
MikeBigg said:
In all honesty, I really think our coaching/mentoring exceeds theirs. I know we question some of the schemes and calls, but from a fundamental standpoint I see our athletes executing (technique wise) as well as those other cats. The only thing is they are (for the most part) more talented and quantitatively superior...it ain't the disparity in coaching. At our HBCU's if a "good high school player" doesn't pan out, the knock is that he didn't get good coaching. When the 4 & 5 star kid doesn't cut it at the BCS programs, the tendency is to say "He was overrated" or the level of competition was too great. They don't develop talent, they refine it a bit but instead of having to play "catch up" teaching fundamentals, they can instead focus on making kids know their alignment and assignments. Often times the kids are in position to make the play, but their ability is limited. We put that on the coaches...maybe sometimes a bit too much. (just my 2cents).
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:retard:

Really?
 
MikeBigg said:
In all honesty, I really think our coaching/mentoring exceeds theirs. I know we question some of the schemes and calls, but from a fundamental standpoint I see our athletes executing (technique wise) as well as those other cats. The only thing is they are (for the most part) more talented and quantitatively superior...it ain't the disparity in coaching. At our HBCU's if a "good high school player" doesn't pan out, the knock is that he didn't get good coaching. When the 4 & 5 star kid doesn't cut it at the BCS programs, the tendency is to say "He was overrated" or the level of competition was too great. They don't develop talent, they refine it a bit but instead of having to play "catch up" teaching fundamentals, they can instead focus on making kids know their alignment and assignments. Often times the kids are in position to make the play, but their ability is limited. We put that on the coaches...maybe sometimes a bit too much. (just my 2cents).
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Hi Mike! :wavey:

I disagree, to a certain extent, to the coaching/mentoring exceeds those of pwcu's. While it is true that many of our HBCUs have talented coaches and those who do mentor, unfortunately I don't see a lot of that in the SWAC. Too many are worried about money, support from the fans, etc to focus on their athletes. While it is true that many people blame the coach when an athlete/team does pan out, ultimately it does fall back on the coach, considering the athlete can only attempt to execute what the coach tells him/her to do on the field/court. I do agree with you when you say that our HBCU coaches are better at refining talent, but again, coaches nowadays go with the "run it the way I say it" rather than look at the athletes strengths and sharpen and enhance them. The ability isn't limited.....it doesn't get the chance to be displayed because a lot of our coaches have an ego bigger than the team.....

I can understand a coach wanting his QB to have the stellar skills, and I can understand a coach wanting his team to play at the level or beyond his expectations; but when it's only about 4-5 minutes into the very 1stQ of the game, and it's 4th&1 on the 18yard line inside the FG range, AND THE COACH MAKES THE DECISION TO GO FOR THE DOWN INSTEAD OF KICKING THE FG, that doesn't speak good volume for the coach. Remember, the players had to go for it because the coach said to. And when the coach turns around does the exact same thing the following week against a must-win opponent, that is very bad coaching, especially when he makes the excuse, "I wanted a score"......but your offense is struggling inside the 20yard line!:retard:

You've got a great WR, open during the entire game, and yet you insist on the run, running the ball for the same 3 downs and maybe gain about 7 yards during the 3 outs?:retard:

Or your team is up by at least 15-17 points, and your QB is throwing all over the place, getting the TDs, everything.....and the coach makes the decision to take him out in the 4thQ, and the team turns around and loses the game?:retard:

These are the things that make a lot question the skill and potential of the coach...not the players. These things, imo, are due to the disparity of the coach and not the player.
 
MikeBigg said:
In all honesty, I really think our coaching/mentoring exceeds theirs. I know we question some of the schemes and calls, but from a fundamental standpoint I see our athletes executing (technique wise) as well as those other cats. The only thing is they are (for the most part) more talented and quantitatively superior...it ain't the disparity in coaching. At our HBCU's if a "good high school player" doesn't pan out, the knock is that he didn't get good coaching. When the 4 & 5 star kid doesn't cut it at the BCS programs, the tendency is to say "He was overrated" or the level of competition was too great. They don't develop talent, they refine it a bit but instead of having to play "catch up" teaching fundamentals, they can instead focus on making kids know their alignment and assignments. Often times the kids are in position to make the play, but their ability is limited. We put that on the coaches...maybe sometimes a bit too much. (just my 2cents).
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I agree. It's really easy coaching talented kids. Plus with unlimited resources and staff, those coaches really don't work hard compared to our coaches.
 
The mentoring and coaching comments I made were based on those guys that I know personally or have observed closely over the years. Perhaps I'm biased based on these individuals and making the assumption that all (or most) behave in a similar manner. As for the techiques... our players are not really flawed, but a lot of their problems comes from guys trying to make highlight plays out of routine plays. I think our fanbase culture has a lot to do with that...we (as fans) have the Big play mentality as evidenced by our penchant for big play offenses. It's not so much the players aren't being taught "technique" as it is our coaches "allowing" them too much leeway in some of the "playmaking" decisions they try to make.
 
http://www.thenewsstar.com/article/...ng-down?odyssey=mod|newswell|text|FRONTPAGE|s

Check out this picture of Doug and WR Charles Bailey... Trust me when I tell you that there's a lot of teaching that goes on at our schools. I still wager to say, moreso or at least as much as at the other schools. I've knocked our coaching in the past...moreso in terms of decision making and game management than in terms of them getting the most out of players and developing those "diamonds in the rough" into prospective pro players. We sign the same number of 2 and 3 stars as these BCS schools are signing 5 stars and you'd see an increase in our pool of guys being drafted. I really believe that!
 
MikeBigg said:
The mentoring and coaching comments I made were based on those guys that I know personally or have observed closely over the years. Perhaps I'm biased based on these individuals and making the assumption that all (or most) behave in a similar manner. As for the techiques... our players are not really flawed, but a lot of their problems comes from guys trying to make highlight plays out of routine plays. I think our fanbase culture has a lot to do with that...we (as fans) have the Big play mentality as evidenced by our penchant for big play offenses. It's not so much the players aren't being taught "technique" as it is our coaches "allowing" them too much leeway in some of the "playmaking" decisions they try to make.
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Well, that's a problem. A coaching problem. They shouldn't "allow" leeway if it's detrimental to the team and to player development.

Arizona State linebacker Vontaze Burfict just went from what most considered to be a sure first round pick to undrafted because he has a tendency to do his own thing on the field. If you have an entire conference that allows players to make fundamentally unsound plays because the fans have a "big play mentality", then that is piss poor coaching and no one should be in this thread complaining about SWAC players not being drafted into the NFL. Why choose a player like that when you can choose someone else who has been coached properly and is fundamentally sound?
 
SUJagFan said:
Well, that's a problem. A coaching problem. They shouldn't "allow" leeway if it's detrimental to the team and to player development.

Arizona State linebacker Vontaze Burfict just went from what most considered to be a sure first round pick to undrafted because he has a tendency to do his own thing on the field. If you have an entire conference that allows players to make fundamentally unsound plays because the fans have a "big play mentality", then that is piss poor coaching and no one should be in this thread complaining about SWAC players not being drafted into the NFL. Why choose a player like that when you can choose someone else who has been coached properly and is fundamentally sound?
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Fans around our league makes it tough...especially those who have access to the player and can "second guess" the staff. Then when the staff attempts to limit access, they are often viewed as "unfriendly" to the fanbase. I know it's easy to say "sit his azz down" but for one thing, we ain't got a whole lot of depth and these "street committee" coaches don't help. Fortunately, the smart players don't listen to that crap as much as those "stadium seat coaches" would like. Remember Chris Anthony? Helluva Player who made big plays for us all season... I remember a comment made by the staff (at the time) that they had to work on him being consistent and not freelancing sometimes as it caused problems with "gap" responsibility. Fortunately for Chris, he listened to the staff and learned how to strike a balance of when to go "big play/freelance" and when to play fundamentally sound position football. I specifically remember against Northwestern that he scored twice because he didn't "freelance" and go for some fakes but stayed home and created two turnovers...one he scored and one he lateralled to someone else. The outcry from some was that "That Gap Control Mess is curtailing his development". Far from it... in fact, if not for the health issue I think he would have been drafted coming off his senior year (which he didn't get to play).

In other words, when our staffs try to coach and teach, our fans often complain because it isn't a swashbuckling style.
 
MikeBigg said:
Fans around our league makes it tough...especially those who have access to the player and can "second guess" the staff. Then when the staff attempts to limit access, they are often viewed as "unfriendly" to the fanbase. I know it's easy to say "sit his azz down" but for one thing, we ain't got a whole lot of depth and these "street committee" coaches don't help. Fortunately, the smart players don't listen to that crap as much as those "stadium seat coaches" would like. Remember Chris Anthony? Helluva Player who made big plays for us all season... I remember a comment made by the staff (at the time) that they had to work on him being consistent and not freelancing sometimes as it caused problems with "gap" responsibility. Fortunately for Chris, he listened to the staff and learned how to strike a balance of when to go "big play/freelance" and when to play fundamentally sound position football. I specifically remember against Northwestern that he scored twice because he didn't "freelance" and go for some fakes but stayed home and created two turnovers...one he scored and one he lateralled to someone else. The outcry from some was that "That Gap Control Mess is curtailing his development". Far from it... in fact, if not for the health issue I think he would have been drafted coming off his senior year (which he didn't get to play).

In other words, when our staffs try to coach and teach, our fans often complain because it isn't a swashbuckling style.
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Well, you're right but those same fans shouldn't complain when we don't send players to the NFL and can't beat the Delta States of the world. That's the result of that big play mentality and swashbuckling style. You can't have it both ways.

I would love to see a coach come in and have the courage to do the thing right and win. Winning is the key. I think if you could show the fans that you can win by playing fundamentally sound football, then I think HBCUs could attract higher quality players and coaches which would eventually raise the profile of black college football. Make more money and so forth.

Until then, we'll be sitting around wondering why things won't change when we keep doing the same old thing. :smh:
 
SUjagTILLiDIE said:
dude you think scouts use TV to judge talent :lol: . If you have talent they will find you.
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The Founder and SUjagTILLiDIE... both of you are right. Scouts are going to find you if you have the talent. But also, lets not neglect the fact that attention helps. The more we're on international television, the more people see us, the more scouts will notice us.

So I think the MEAC, SWAC, SIAC, and CIAA; really need to explore television opportunities on National Brand Networks... "The Bayou Classic" is on NBC, but what about "The Magic City Classic?" What about "The Florida Classic?" Even the "Southern Heritage Classic" and "The Atlanta Football Classic," may need to look at taking the next step ESPNU, ESPNClassic, FoxSports Channel... these are good, BUT NBC, FOX, ABC, CBS; these are better, lets keep it real.
 



RA said:
The Founder and SUjagTILLiDIE... both of you are right. Scouts are going to find you if you have the talent. But also, lets not neglect the fact that attention helps. The more we're on international television, the more people see us, the more scouts will notice us.

So I think the MEAC, SWAC, SIAC, and CIAA; really need to explore television opportunities on National Brand Networks... "The Bayou Classic" is on NBC, but what about "The Magic City Classic?" What about "The Florida Classic?" Even the "Southern Heritage Classic" and "The Atlanta Football Classic," may need to look at taking the next step ESPNU, ESPNClassic, FoxSports Channel... these are good, BUT NBC, FOX, ABC, CBS; these are better, lets keep it real.
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The SWAC and MEAC are on NATIONAL TV more than any other FCS conference.
 
Personally I feel that HBCU's haven't created a venue where students can see themselves progressing and high rate--I just think that if a lot of talent out there see themselves in an area where they can have AT LEAST a level of statehood where they can see themselves progressing to the next level they will flock to THOSE or THAT institution(s)! The amount of money is always falling short in local HBCU"S so that will keep these schools on the bottom for long time to come, IMO!
 
Why go playin front of 12 to 15 thousand when you can play in front of 100 thousand? Why not go to a place where you get $100.00 hand shakes daily and a all expense paid trip to paradise for 4 years? Reality what would you do?
 
levi18 said:
Why go playin front of 12 to 15 thousand when you can play in front of 100 thousand? Why not go to a place where you get $100.00 hand shakes daily and a all expense paid trip to paradise for 4 years? Reality what would you do?
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Yet, another good point. But we should be able to compete and win Championships against FCS competition, right?? There aren't any $100 handshakes being given out over at Furman or over at Appy State or Eastern Washington.

-We should be at least EQUAL to the top FCS schools, right??
 
SUJagFan said:
Well, you're right but those same fans shouldn't complain when we don't send players to the NFL and can't beat the Delta States of the world. That's the result of that big play mentality and swashbuckling style. You can't have it both ways.

I would love to see a coach come in and have the courage to do the thing right and win. Winning is the key. I think if you could show the fans that you can win by playing fundamentally sound football, then I think HBCUs could attract higher quality players and coaches which would eventually raise the profile of black college football. Make more money and so forth.

Until then, we'll be sitting around wondering why things won't change when we keep doing the same old thing. :smh:
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The past two coaches we've had both won on the field and ran clean programs...still there's criticism. Broadway was undefeated at home for 4 seasons, yet some said it was too "boring" and blamed the attendance on that fact. (Although the numbers show the attendance has been down prior to and after). It ain't about winning... our fans like whining. Ar these coach's faultless? Of course not...but all things considered, it ain't them who is the problem (not in totality)
 
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