Black Athletes, White Schools...

[Lewis]

Lewis, Now you're talking about majors offered at SU vs LSU. Of course we won't offer all the majors they have. That didn't seem to be SUTrp96's point at all to me.

But that is my point, his point doesn't take facts like that into account. It seems that he is almost totally focused on Black-White and doesn't want to see anything else. THis is a lot bigger than Black-White. Take computer science for example, they have someone at LSU that was awarded as 1 of the top 50 innovates ever in Computer Science. He has and can give things that no prof at Southern can. Now am I saying that he is "better", NO!!!! But people like him are going to go well beyond the book in direction A. Do we have professors that will go well beyond the book in a different direction B, yes. Is A better than B or B better than A, maybe, maybe not. BUT THAT IS NOT THE MAJOR POiNT. The point is that we as blacks need to be exposed to both.

Be it from a PWC or another HBCU or a Chinese school or whatever, we need to be there if we want to continue to compete.

 

[jag4life]

But that is my point, his point doesn't take facts like that into account. It seems that he is almost totally focused on Black-White and doesn't want to see anything else. THis is a lot bigger than Black-White. Take computer science for example, they have someone at LSU that was awarded as 1 of the top 50 innovates ever in Computer Science. He has and can give things that no prof at Southern can. Now am I saying that he is "better", NO!!!! But people like him are going to go well beyond the book in direction A.

Does that guy teach undergrad classes or do his grad assistants do it for him?

 

[jag4life]

Now to Lewis is point........I can agree with alot that he says. Until you have dealt with Executive Level blacks and whites you will not understand how some schools are viewed. Sure our HBCUs have cranked out some of the most talented folks ever and will continue to do so. But that doesn't change the perception. I battle that on a daily basis. Those white folks rather talk about my time at Ohio State or my Naval days.........and quite honestly, the fact I was a Naval Officer has gotten me through the door more so than anything. So yes in this white dominated society those other schools are perceived to be better. I am not saying that is true. Because we all know in alot of instances they are not. But let's be real..........in a lot more instances we are not on point and have work to do. But every college is that way whether they are a PWC or HBCU. There is no perfect school. Every kid has to make a choice to go where they need to for what they want.

I deal with some executive level folks almost daily. I don't hear many discussions about anyone's college of choice here unless I ask a Black guy I might see. Our Engineering Manager for this $7B project is an SU grad (1980 - ME).

 

[Da_Sperm]

Math is Math and Science is Science. That won't change no matter where you go. In fact, those who are teaching math or science at the college level and above must have put in the WORK.

My eyes were opened when I started to work with people from India. I still say that these people are the brightest technological minds on the face of the earth. Had I not gotten the opportunity to work with these people early in my career, I would have been lost. I thought I was pretty bright based on my competitors (white and black software developers). I realized that I had to step up my game. UAPB didn't have any students from India.

Those young Indian developers I worked with early in my career got exposed to way more things to prepare them for the technology world than UAPB provided for me. That is not a knock at all on UAPB. I didn't have the grades or money to go anywhere but UAPB anyways. However, some black student has the grades and/or money, and UAPB should be one of several choices.

 

[SUtrp96]

But that is my point, his point doesn't take facts like that into account. It seems that he is almost totally focused on Black-White and doesn't want to see anything else. THis is a lot bigger than Black-White. Take computer science for example, they have someone at LSU that was awarded as 1 of the top 50 innovates ever in Computer Science. He has and can give things that no prof at Southern can. Now am I saying that he is "better", NO!!!! But people like him are going to go well beyond the book in direction A. Do we have professors that will go well beyond the book in a different direction B, yes. Is A better than B or B better than A, maybe, maybe not. BUT THAT IS NOT THE MAJOR POiNT. The point is that we as blacks need to be exposed to both.

Be it from a PWC or another HBCU or a Chinese school or whatever, we need to be there if we want to continue to compete.

As much as it seems like it, it's not a black/white thing with me.. I am just confused at how and why our own people can't see we have everything ANY black and WHITE kid will need to make it out here. White people already knock us and NEVER spent 20 minutes on an HBCU campus and now we have our OWN that should know better supporting thier ignorant thoughts? I just can't get with that and I think that is where my post may seem to be White/Black.

Because LSU has someone the was recognized as being an inoovator isn't a reason for a kid to solely choose to go to LSU over SU.. at LSU you ain't nothing but a number..them classes are 150 cap minimun in most cases, even if they had Dr. King he ain't going to influence all them kids the same way Dr.Scholl would influence a class of 20 to 80. And that still depends on that persons personality.. we are all human remember that. That same person you are talking about could be a grade A "arsehole" who don't give a dayum about a black student.. then again he could be one that care.. then he could be one of those proffesors that don't have time after class, then again he could.. you see where I am going.... If you are hired to teach at SU, JSU, GSU, AAMU I would like to think you were choosen because the board trust you can make a strong influence on some young kids lives both WHITEN BLACK.. you think LSU board gives a dayum if any black kid feels the same love he would get at SU vs. LSU.. I already know you going to say.."They getting ready for the real world"....lol and I say "THE MAN's WORLD"?!?!...lol

Maybe I am strong on my thoughts because of how thing are down south like JR. said. I know students that were a UNO and they ALL say the students and teachers are racist.. It's been all kind of wierd cases..."White kid come in late----- Laughs, teachers tells him/her be on time"..."Black kid comes in late.. my bad, COMES late, door is LOCKED!!!"... Kids gets wierd looks for going in certain parts of the campus....And this is happening today as I type. Professors are wide open with the rasicm there... I can't speak that indept about LSU because I didn't have many friends that went there neither did I spend that much time on their campus. But looking at them few clips on YouTube I am sure even the UNO students are loving it.

My point is we shouldn't promote these PWC's more than and even as much as our HBCU's when folks from PWC looks at us as an extension of high school.

Better facilities/ better campus/more oportunity(LMAO) If SU was good enough for me, it's good enough for Bill Gates in my opinion, didn't he drop out of a PWC? which means a PWC can't do isht for you that any other school such as HBCU's can do as long as we have the same BOOKS and TIME to learn.

 

[SUjagTILLiDIE]

As much as it seems like it, it's not a black/white thing with me.. I am just confused at how and why our own people can't see we have everything ANY black and WHITE kid will need to make it out here. White people already knock us and NEVER spent 20 minutes on an HBCU campus and now we have our OWN that should know better supporting thier ignorant thoughts? I just can't get with that and I think that is where my post may seem to be White/Black.

Because LSU has someone the was recognized as being an inoovator isn't a reason for a kid to solely choose to go to LSU over SU.. at LSU you ain't nothing but a number..them classes are 150 cap minimun in most cases, even if they had Dr. King he ain't going to influence all them kids the same way Dr.Scholl would influence a class of 20 to 80. And that still depends on that persons personality.. we are all human remember that. That same person you are talking about could be a grade A "arsehole" who don't give a dayum about a black student.. then again he could be one that care.. then he could be one of those proffesors that don't have time after class, then again he could.. you see where I am going.... If you are hired to teach at SU, JSU, GSU, AAMU I would like to think you were choosen because the board trust you can make a strong influence on some young kids lives both WHITEN BLACK.. you think LSU board gives a dayum if any black kid feels the same love he would get at SU vs. LSU.. I already know you going to say.."They getting ready for the real world"....lol and I say "THE MAN's WORLD"?!?!...lol

Maybe I am strong on my thoughts because of how thing are down south like JR. said. I know students that were a UNO and they ALL say the students and teachers are racist.. It's been all kind of wierd cases..."White kid come in late----- Laughs, teachers tells him/her be on time"..."Black kid comes in late.. my bad, COMES late, door is LOCKED!!!"... Kids gets wierd looks for going in certain parts of the campus....And this is happening today as I type. Professors are wide open with the rasicm there... I can't speak that indept about LSU because I didn't have many friends that went there neither did I spend that much time on their campus. But looking at them few clips on YouTube I am sure even the UNO students are loving it.

My point is we shouldn't promote these PWC's more than and even as much as our HBCU's when folks from PWC looks at us as an extension of high school.

Better facilities/ better campus/more oportunity(LMAO) If SU was good enough for me, it's good enough for Bill Gates in my opinion, didn't he drop out of a PWC? which means a PWC can't do isht for you that any other school such as HBCU's can do as long as we have the same BOOKS and TIME to learn.

:tup::tup::tup: to every last reply you have on this topic.

 

[Lewis]

We will have to agree to disagree. I believe eduacation on all levels is just that education. They are not writing seperate books for HBCU's vs. PWC.. it's all on how that teacher teaches his/her class and how that student takes the information studies and apply it. I said math, science because the way I was able to learn I found out all of that isht is just that simple.
You stated what Majors SU don't have vs. LSU..but you failed to address the ones we do have the same SU students are known to out perform an average LSU student. What major a school carries is only based on that school have MONEY to support that additional major by hiring qualified professors for that major of interest.

First of all, I don't agree to disagree.

Lets take this to a simple level first. i am sure in your years at college you have had to take a class where more than 1 professor taught the same class. They may use the same book, but no 2 professors are gonna teach the class exactly the same. now for a basic freshman level class, there will not be much of a difference, but as you move up, the differences will increase. When you get someone that is very knowledgeable in their field, they are gonna go well beyond any 1 text book. There is a giant difference between someone just repeating the textbook to you and someone that is knowledgeable in the field. One of my marks of evaluating a professor is how much did you teach me that was not in the book. We have many specialized courses at Southern many of which are great, some are garbage. LSU (for example) also has many that are great and some that are garbage. LSU's set and Southern's set are not the same. THis has nothing to do with black or white. Many of these specialized classes are not taught directly from any textbook. we need it all, not just 1 side.

There is no way possible for Southern, LSU, or any other school to be experts in everything. Just not possible.

You said that I failed to address the same classes where SU students outperformed LSU students. it is not that, I give you that. but you fail to realize that is not the point. but if you want to go there, if you put Southerns best against LSU best, if you think Southern will win that everytime you are dreaming. But that is not the point, the diversity is.

 

["NOISE TALKA"]

I feel most of what you are saying, but can you explain the statement above in greater detail?

I mean that in a real sense if someone came from outside of America and said "show me the 'least' place"... they'd show them the south.... if they then said "show me the least of these people"... they'd show them blacks. What schools primarily serve those people? That's why I think our role is so important. If any sweeping change will/can happen we should MOST CERTAINLY have something to do with it.

 

[JR]

I deal with some executive level folks almost daily. I don't hear many discussions about anyone's college of choice here unless I ask a Black guy I might see. Our Engineering Manager for this $7B project is an SU grad (1980 - ME).

My comment was based on one on one conversations with black men who have made it to the VP Level who did endure that kind of rhetoric is what I was saying. Folks like SU grad Joe Stewart who was the Exec VP of all Kellogg's when I worked for them. Different talk at that level.

Also there are nothing but us in Houston in the NASA area. SU and PV Engineering grads all over JSC and the contract companies in top positions. Our schools are respected over there because we are visible and they know about us. Actually the funny thing was hearing how the Texas and A&M Alums kidded U of H alums when I worked for Lockheed then SAIC at JSC. Always calling them Cougar High grads.

 

[SUtrp96]

First of all, I don't agree to disagree.

Lets take this to a simple level first. i am sure in your years at college you have had to take a class where more than 1 professor taught the same class. They may use the same book, but no 2 professors are gonna teach the class exactly the same. now for a basic freshman level class, there will not be much of a difference, but as you move up, the differences will increase. When you get someone that is very knowledgeable in their field, they are gonna go well beyond any 1 text book. There is a giant difference between someone just repeating the textbook to you and someone that is knowledgeable in the field. One of my marks of evaluating a professor is how much did you teach me that was not in the book. We have many specialized courses at Southern many of which are great, some are garbage. LSU (for example) also has many that are great and some that are garbage. LSU's set and Southern's set are not the same. THis has nothing to do with black or white. Many of these specialized classes are not taught directly from any textbook. we need it all, not just 1 side.

There is no way possible for Southern, LSU, or any other school to be experts in everything. Just not possible.

You said that I failed to address the same classes where SU students outperformed LSU students. it is not that, I give you that. but you fail to realize that is not the point. but if you want to go there, if you put Southerns best against LSU best, if you think Southern will win that everytime you are dreaming. But that is not the point, the diversity is.

I can only speak on my experiences.. I had LSU students tell me we have great engineer professors ( I already knew that ).. And many of them admitted they thought it was a piece of cake where we were and reality slapped them in the face when they found out it was the SAME dayum book and our professor was getting DEEPER into the book and OUT the book,
jag4life would what I am talking about when I say Dr.Singleton and we learned about the snakes and all that other stuff we weren't supposed to learn at a school that's not a M.I.T. trust from what I experience.. my teaching was deep in the book and outside the book..

 

["NOISE TALKA"]

First of all, I don't agree to disagree.

Lets take this to a simple level first. i am sure in your years at college you have had to take a class where more than 1 professor taught the same class. They may use the same book, but no 2 professors are gonna teach the class exactly the same. now for a basic freshman level class, there will not be much of a difference, but as you move up, the differences will increase. When you get someone that is very knowledgeable in their field, they are gonna go well beyond any 1 text book. There is a giant difference between someone just repeating the textbook to you and someone that is knowledgeable in the field. One of my marks of evaluating a professor is how much did you teach me that was not in the book. We have many specialized courses at Southern many of which are great, some are garbage. LSU (for example) also has many that are great and some that are garbage. LSU's set and Southern's set are not the same. THis has nothing to do with black or white. Many of these specialized classes are not taught directly from any textbook. we need it all, not just 1 side.

There is no way possible for Southern, LSU, or any other school to be experts in everything. Just not possible.

You said that I failed to address the same classes where SU students outperformed LSU students. it is not that, I give you that. but you fail to realize that is not the point. but if you want to go there, if you put Southerns best against LSU best, if you think Southern will win that everytime you are dreaming. But that is not the point, the diversity is.

I think SUtrp is speaking from a standpoint of availability of achievement though... Is it possible to go to Southern and attain the same thing you can attain at LSU... I find that for the most part, when you reach higher education much of the load falls on the student. As to say, that your education is what YOU make it.

The difference in success/failure... wealth/poverty... is most times the lack of access. Is there a lack of access to knowledge at SU that will prevent a student from achieving what one would at LSU? If not... why not attend Southern?

 

[jag4life]

My comment was based on one on one conversations with black men who have made it to the VP Level who did endure that kind of rhetoric is what I was saying. Folks like SU grad Joe Stewart who was the Exec VP of all Kellogg's when I worked for them. Different talk at that level.

Also there are nothing but us in Houston in the NASA area. SU and PV Engineering grads all over JSC and the contract companies in top positions. Our schools are respected over there because we are visible and they know about us. Actually the funny thing was hearing how the Texas and A&M Alums kidded U of H alums when I worked for Lockheed then SAIC at JSC. Always calling them Cougar High grads.

Oh yeah the Cougar High jokes were/are very funny. LOL

I'm in the Oil and Gas industry now and this is a whole different animal. There is so much money being spent and made that it is amazing.

 

[jag4life]

I can only speak on my experiences.. I had LSU students tell me we have great engineer professors ( I already knew that ).. And many of them admitted they thought it was a piece of cake where we were and reality slapped them in the face when they found out it was the SAME dayum book and our professor was getting DEEPER into the book and OUT the book,
jag4life would what I am talking about when I say Dr.Singleton and we learned about the snakes and all that other stuff we weren't supposed to learn at a school that's not a M.I.T. trust from what I experience.. my teaching was deep in the book and outside the book..

Yep...the snake. He said a snake travels just as fast moving forward as it does going backwards. You better know that information forward and backwards.

 

[JR]

As much as it seems like it, it's not a black/white thing with me.. I am just confused at how and why our own people can't see we have everything ANY black and WHITE kid will need to make it out here. White people already knock us and NEVER spent 20 minutes on an HBCU campus and now we have our OWN that should know better supporting thier ignorant thoughts? I just can't get with that and I think that is where my post may seem to be White/Black.

Because LSU has someone the was recognized as being an inoovator isn't a reason for a kid to solely choose to go to LSU over SU.. at LSU you ain't nothing but a number..them classes are 150 cap minimun in most cases, even if they had Dr. King he ain't going to influence all them kids the same way Dr.Scholl would influence a class of 20 to 80. And that still depends on that persons personality.. we are all human remember that. That same person you are talking about could be a grade A "arsehole" who don't give a dayum about a black student.. then again he could be one that care.. then he could be one of those proffesors that don't have time after class, then again he could.. you see where I am going.... If you are hired to teach at SU, JSU, GSU, AAMU I would like to think you were choosen because the board trust you can make a strong influence on some young kids lives both WHITEN BLACK.. you think LSU board gives a dayum if any black kid feels the same love he would get at SU vs. LSU.. I already know you going to say.."They getting ready for the real world"....lol and I say "THE MAN's WORLD"?!?!...lol

Maybe I am strong on my thoughts because of how thing are down south like JR. said. I know students that were a UNO and they ALL say the students and teachers are racist.. It's been all kind of wierd cases..."White kid come in late----- Laughs, teachers tells him/her be on time"..."Black kid comes in late.. my bad, COMES late, door is LOCKED!!!"... Kids gets wierd looks for going in certain parts of the campus....And this is happening today as I type. Professors are wide open with the rasicm there... I can't speak that indept about LSU because I didn't have many friends that went there neither did I spend that much time on their campus. But looking at them few clips on YouTube I am sure even the UNO students are loving it.

My point is we shouldn't promote these PWC's more than and even as much as our HBCU's when folks from PWC looks at us as an extension of high school.

Better facilities/ better campus/more oportunity(LMAO) If SU was good enough for me, it's good enough for Bill Gates in my opinion, didn't he drop out of a PWC? which means a PWC can't do isht for you that any other school such as HBCU's can do as long as we have the same BOOKS and TIME to learn.

Now I do agree with this post. The bottom line is that every kid whether white or black has the make the best choice for them. I have white co-workers who wanted no parts of the University of Minnesota or Wisconsin. Both schools get all the hype up this way academically. They said those schools were too big and you would be just a number. They felt by going to the University of St. Thomas in St. Paul or Maclaster, or Concordia U or even the school Devean George went to.....Gustavis Adolphis was more for them and cared about the students. Same as our HBCUs are great for alot of us because of the size and the attention we get. Now to spin it around. Some black kids flourish in the big time environment with a 100 plus folks in a class. Some folks like being not known and the PWC fits them to a tee. I have met some cool arse and smart brothers and sisters who went to PWCs and some often say they wished they had went to a HBCU. Alot of them couldn't afford to because they are from here or Iowa or some other Midwest state and went those PWCs because they had too. So that is why I have no problems with any black kid going wherever. I still don't like PWCs in the South, but that is because my old man raised me that way. LOL. But I don't begrudge a kid from furthering their education. My point is you got to do what is best for you. For some black kids it is going to a PWC and for others it is going to a HBCU and hell for some others they may need to take their arse to the military because they aint ready for nobody's college.

 

[southsuburbs]

Every year there's a large HBCU college fair held in Chicago during MLK weekend.

as usual I volunteered to work/recruit at this college fair for my respective Alma Maters.

as usual, I walked to each school to gather information. One thing I noticed this year is that alot of HBCU's have lowered their admission standards. Several HBCU's told me they don't have a specific gpa requirement for admission but the average is a 2.0.

The only 2 HBCU's that I remember off hand that had "real" admission standards were Howard and FAMU. Others were mediocre, if not just non-existent. Even A&T has lowered it's out-of-state admission requirements.

Do you think this has an affect (negative/positive) on a university and it's credibility?

 

[JR]

Oh yeah the Cougar High jokes were/are very funny. LOL

I'm in the Oil and Gas industry now and this is a whole different animal. There is so much money being spent and made that it is amazing.

LOL. Man I am glad to see some more brothers in the Oil and Gas Industry in key places like the 80 SU grad you mentioned.

My Company - Emerson Process Management a Division of Emerson Electric makes Transmitters for the refineries. Your industry is our biggest customer. Talk about money. We are breaking records on profits.

 

[jag4life]

Every year there's a large HBCU college fair held in Chicago during MLK weekend.

as usual I volunteered to work/recruit at this college fair for my respective Alma Maters.

as usual, I walked to each school to gather information. One thing I noticed this year is that alot of HBCU's have lowered their admission standards. Several HBCU's told me they don't have a specific gpa requirement for admission but the average is a 2.0.

The only 2 HBCU's that I remember off hand that had "real" admission standards were Howard and FAMU. Others were mediocre, if not just non-existent. Even A&T has lowered it's out-of-state admission requirements.

Do you think this has an affect (negative/positive) on a university and it's credibility?

Not in my eyes because it is not what you are when you come in that matters, it's what you are when you leave.

 

[Lewis]

As much as it seems like it, it's not a black/white thing with me.. I am just confused at how and why our own people can't see we have everything ANY black and WHITE kid will need to make it out here. White people already knock us and NEVER spent 20 minutes on an HBCU campus and now we have our OWN that should know better supporting thier ignorant thoughts? I just can't get with that and I think that is where my post may seem to be White/Black.

That is the first point, I agree with your statement, but that does NOT mean we have everything that is best for EVERY student (Key word "EVERY" not "ANY"). In none of my statements am I knocking my own or HBCU's.

Because LSU has someone the was recognized as being an inoovator isn't a reason for a kid to solely choose to go to LSU over SU.. at LSU you ain't nothing but a number..them classes are 150 cap minimun in most cases, even if they had Dr. King he ain't going to influence all them kids the same way Dr.Scholl would influence a class of 20 to 80. And that still depends on that persons personality.. we are all human remember that. That same person you are talking about could be a grade A "arsehole" who don't give a dayum about a black student.. then again he could be one that care.. then he could be one of those proffesors that don't have time after class, then again he could.. you see where I am going.... If you are hired to teach at SU, JSU, GSU, AAMU I would like to think you were choosen because the board trust you can make a strong influence on some young kids lives both WHITEN BLACK.. you think LSU board gives a dayum if any black kid feels the same love he would get at SU vs. LSU.. I already know you going to say.."They getting ready for the real world"....lol and I say "THE MAN's WORLD"?!?!...lol

First, actually, the guy was OK, he would stay after class and answer questions/ discuss issues and tell us stories about things that happened. I am not saying choose any school soley because of that. But if you think (fill in any school here) has a monoply on professors that are assholes think again. And believe me, Southern has its share.
Each school has its share of good ones and bad ones.

Maybe I am strong on my thoughts because of how thing are down south like JR. said. I know students that were a UNO and they ALL say the students and teachers are racist.. It's been all kind of wierd cases..."White kid come in late----- Laughs, teachers tells him/her be on time"..."Black kid comes in late.. my bad, COMES late, door is LOCKED!!!"... Kids gets wierd looks for going in certain parts of the campus....And this is happening today as I type. Professors are wide open with the rasicm there... I can't speak that indept about LSU because I didn't have many friends that went there neither did I spend that much time on their campus. But looking at them few clips on YouTube I am sure even the UNO students are loving it.

My point is we shouldn't promote these PWC's more than and even as much as our HBCU's when folks from PWC looks at us as an extension of high school.

Better facilities/ better campus/more oportunity(LMAO) If SU was good enough for me, it's good enough for Bill Gates in my opinion, didn't he drop out of a PWC? which means a PWC can't do isht for you that any other school such as HBCU's can do as long as we have the same BOOKS and TIME to learn.

Now you have take something made it into something different. I never said we should promote PWC more than HBCU's. The difference in our comments is at the end you try to down PWC to make a case for HBCU' s (for example, you last comment about Bill Gates) when that is not the point at all. It is that HBCU have a unique and very valuable experience that cannot be duplicated anywhere. But so do PWC and in many cases it is different. My point is instead of being so quick to say f*** em we don't need them, we (in todays times) gotta instead look at what we learn/gain/add to what we have from them. Like DaSperm said:

Math is Math and Science is Science. That won't change no matter where you go. In fact, those who are teaching math or science at the college level and above must have put in the WORK.

My eyes were opened when I started to work with people from India. I still say that these people are the brightest technological minds on the face of the earth. Had I not gotten the opportunity to work with these people early in my career, I would have been lost. I thought I was pretty bright based on my competitors (white and black software developers). I realized that I had to step up my game. UAPB didn't have any students from India.

Those young Indian developers I worked with early in my career got exposed to way more things to prepare them for the technology world than UAPB provided for me. That is not a knock at all on UAPB. I didn't have the grades or money to go anywhere but UAPB anyways. However, some black student has the grades and/or money, and UAPB should be one of several choices.

Those Indian students had (as you would say) the same books, and C++ is C++ not matter where you go, but we better realize there is another level there.
And again, this is not "agree to disagree" these are the facts whether you want to accept it or not.