Attention Arrangers


Mr. Phreeze

Mr. Phreeze

Phrozen Cold
This thread for individuals who are arrangers and/or call themselves arrangers. I have a question for you:

Now, in this day time, with several bootleg copies of music software floating around (Finale, Sibelius, MidiSoft, etc..), Arrangers are all of sudden growing on trees. People are so much as going on Finale Showcase or Midi websites, stealing it, putting their names on it and passing it out like its theirs. Something that is totally uncool.

But my question to you is:

1. If your computer crashes or you don't have access to any music writing software, are you able or still able to produce a "QUALITY" arrangement for your band or whoever you're arranging for?

I asked this question to several people and they did one of 2 things: Got mad and took offense to it or straight up admitted that they couldn't do it.
 
Honestly, my better arrangements are the ones that are handwritten. I use my noteworthy when I'm bored.

I didn't even know that you could steal midis off the net and call them your own. I guess if you can put them on the net, someone can take them off the net.

Technology these days. It's really something else.
 



PVSAX99 said:
Honestly, my better arrangements are the ones that are handwritten. I use my noteworthy when I'm bored.

Technology these days. It's really something else.
Click to expand...

Thats the only way I knew how to do it. We didn't have all that computer stuff during my heyday. Give me a tablet and then sitting at a piano and we were on.
 
Well...I have done it both ways. I use Finale (still at 2005) now and Scorewriter before that. It is really nice just to be able to hear something that sounds like the voicings of a band. I don't know a lot about the other scoring programs. I really haven't touched the nicer capabilities of Finale. What I would really like is to be able to put a weight to the voice of each instrument: actually give a number of players for each instrument so I could have an even better feel for the balance of the sound. As it stands, I arrange whatever I like and then take it to my local HS band that I write for and give it a whirl. If it's close enough, I tweak it and keep it; if not, I throw it away. But, the best thing about these programs is that once the score is complete, producing the parts is just a snap. And, if I don't like something, I can change it and produce clean copy in minutes. I think that is what I like the best.

So, getting back to the original question, I could go back to the old way ... I still have score paper ... but why bother?
 
Like anything else with a computer...garbage in, garbage out.

My writing would be the same if it was done by hand. It would just take longer, and not look as neat (because my handwriting needs PRAYER!!!). I like being able to hear it played back, as well.

I'm on Sibelius (4 at home, 3 at the school).
 
dacontinent said:
So, getting back to the original question, I could go back to the old way ... I still have score paper ... but why bother?
Click to expand...

I can agree with you, and I prefer to deal with today's technology if its easier for you. To each is to own. But my question to the arrangers was: If you didn't have access to this software, would you be able to produce the same or better result if you were using the software?
 
Mr. Phreeze said:
I can agree with you, and I prefer to deal with today's technology if its easier for you. To each is to own. But my question to the arrangers was: If you didn't have access to this software, would you be able to produce the same or better result if you were using the software?
Click to expand...

It would be the same. The software does not change what I hear in my mind and I write what I hear in my mind. The SONIC quality of what I am able to produce is improving with every arrangement that I do. The software has only sped up the process by which I am able to produce the arrangements.
 
I TOTALLY agree with you 110%. I have done both (paper, programs (finale 2008 currently). If I don’t have access to a computer with the program when the ARRANGING JUICES start flowing then I will take out the pencil and paper, (not staffed paper lol) no problem, it would take longer but it would not change my VISION that I HAVE for that song.

And TRUTHFULLY I LOVE these programs lol. As a lot of people have mention, one can hear their arrangement right away, modified things if need be, add more to it, Print at a CLICK lol.

The musical programs just makes life much easier just like the other Amenities/Improvements that we have today compared 20+ years ago.

And something to think about, What will musical programs be able to do 20 years from now?
 
dacontinent said:
Well...I have done it both ways. I use Finale (still at 2005) now and Scorewriter before that. It is really nice just to be able to hear something that sounds like the voicings of a band. I don't know a lot about the other scoring programs. I really haven't touched the nicer capabilities of Finale. What I would really like is to be able to put a weight to the voice of each instrument: actually give a number of players for each instrument so I could have an even better feel for the balance of the sound. As it stands, I arrange whatever I like and then take it to my local HS band that I write for and give it a whirl. If it's close enough, I tweak it and keep it; if not, I throw it away. But, the best thing about these programs is that once the score is complete, producing the parts is just a snap. And, if I don't like something, I can change it and produce clean copy in minutes. I think that is what I like the best.

So, getting back to the original question, I could go back to the old way ... I still have score paper ... but why bother?
Click to expand...

I can, have and still do write by hand (Sans keyboard... I used to use my horn, but I haven't owned a trombone in 2 years, so I only use my "perfect pitch"), but it is a VERY tedious process. And, the only way to test your final product is to put it through a band, and as an "arranger for hire", and due to the fact that I am over-seas, I don't have that luxury of having a band/ensemble that can or will play each of the songs I write. Also, in addition to that, sometimes the music get pretty tough..... It can be, and sometimes WOULD be difficult to find an ensemble that is able to play the music.

But don't get me wrong, when I do write something by hand, I still go back and plug-and-chug everything note by note into the program (NoteWorthy, and Finale2009b), for the instant gratification of. This day in age though.... There just is no need to write by hand. It's just not efficient. If I can write "It Must be Magic" by Teena Marie in 2.5hrs on Finale, as a businessman, why would I WANT to take longer doing it by hand?:retard:
 
I love the technology of today because , I can do the things that have been mentioned and also , writing by hand , to me is kind of challenging because , I want to make sure I have the rhythm right and keys. I also want to hear my finished products and mistakes or any adjustments to the voicing or any doubling .I might be trying to do an eight note double 16th rhythm and end up writing a straight eigth note rhythm. It works for me .
 
I start out with a lead sheet to format and step the music in with finale. What I consider cheating is playing the song in the computer! Some folks play by ear and don't know jack of what they are doing! I start arrangers here off by doing a han written or stepping a song like a hymn or a song they don't like. If they can't explain hat they are doing I have them to start over until they do!
 
PVSAX99 said:
Honestly, my better arrangements are the ones that are handwritten. I use my noteworthy when I'm bored.

I didn't even know that you could steal midis off the net and call them your own. I guess if you can put them on the net, someone can take them off the net.

Technology these days. It's really something else.
Click to expand...

A lot of times they just creat programs without fully creating other programs to hinder others from copying or other prevention phenomenas. Eventually they will come up later and by then the damage is usually done but they will come up with it afterwards. You would think that they would come up with the whole bowl of wax before releasing a particular program :noidea:!
 
Gsu95 said:
A lot of times they just creat programs without fully creating other programs to hinder others from copying or other prevention phenomenas. Eventually they will come up later and by then the damage is usually done but they will come up with it afterwards. You would think that they would come up with the whole bowl of wax before releasing a particular program :noidea:!
Click to expand...

Well, I know with the Finale suite, since the 2004 version I believe, you have SEVERAL options on the format you want to save you song file to: .mid, .mp3 and .mus just to name a few. For my website, we save all of the songs as .mp3, because we have already had a few songs stolen (Because they were initially uploaded as .mid)
 
I usually handwrite mine first on a scoring pad. Then I put it on Finale. STEALING ARRANGEMENTS IS RIDICULOUS!!! My old high school band director wanted me to do that. I would always change something. I admit Finale crippled me for a while, but in due time, I got tired of writing everything in baritone, transposing it to the assigned instrument, and then raising by about two octaves. Senior year in high school, I was done with that. Stealing is just sad......TRY AND STEAL MINE......Copyrights all over mine.......
 
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People need a mentor. Philharmonic taught me everything I know. I remember when he was teaching a select few of us, and the students thought he was crazy when he told us that we had handwrite our first piece. You guys wouldn't believe all the complaints and arguements that caused. He eliminated a lot of people because of that. I can also remember in one of our sessions, he brought a radio, played certain excerpts, and told the entire group to write out the "RHYTHMS" they hear. Now, he didn't say anything about the pitches yet, he said "RHYTHMS." You wouldn't believe some of the crazy rhythms and incorrect stem placements on notes that some people wrote down. He mentioned, "That's the number 1 way you can tell that a person doesn't know what they are doing and didn't arrange a certain tune that they are trying to put in front of a band." My favorite one is when people bring me arrangements that they so-called arranged via finale and they have rhythms on the page that they can't:

a. play themselves or even,
b. clap or sing out.

That is the funny one.

I also had arrangements stole from me as well with something simple as ESPN. If people is gonna use other people's arrangement, they should at least do it like a research paper, thesis, or dissertation and document their sources. Such as:

M4 Composed By: G. Hudson (UAPB),
Transcribed, Revised, Rescored, or Rearranged By: James Evans

Therefore, you're giving the credit to the original author, and also to yourself for entering or keying in the tune.
 
mustardmanSU_04 said:
For my website, we save all of the songs as .mp3, because we have already had a few songs stolen (Because they were initially uploaded as .mid)
Click to expand...

What's the website?
I would love to listen to them.

Mr. Phreeze said:
He eliminated a lot of people because of that. I can also remember in one of our sessions, he brought a radio, played certain excerpts, and told the entire group to write out the "RHYTHMS" they hear. Now, he didn't say anything about the pitches yet, he said "RHYTHMS." You wouldn't believe some of the crazy rhythms and incorrect stem placements on notes that some people wrote down.

" My favorite one is when people bring me arrangements that they so-called arranged via finale and they have rhythms on the page that they can't:

a. play themselves or even,
b. clap or sing out.

That is the funny one.
Click to expand...


I guess I'm too old school and would wonder how the hell can you write something and don't know the rhythems. That is where it all begins for me, once I get the rhythems down I can do everything else.
 
Fiyah said:
...I guess I'm too old school and would wonder how the hell can you write something and don't know the rhythems. That is where it all begins for me, once I get the rhythems down I can do everything else.
Click to expand...
I can still hear my old Jr. High band director saying subdivide.
 
Fiyah said:
I would wonder how the hell can you write something and don't know the rhythms. That is where it all begins for me, once I get the rhythms down I can do everything else.
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YOU THINK?!?! I guess people wanna do what they gonna do to try to get a spotlite, huh?

dacontinent said:
I can still hear my old Jr. High band director saying subdivide.
Click to expand...

SUBDIVISION is the Key!!! I look at subdivision as a step letter. Subdivision helps with sight reading and notation. People don't know, don't show, or just don't care about getting better musically. Cause that's what its all about.
 
Mr. Phreeze said:
This thread for individuals who are arrangers and/or call themselves arrangers. I have a question for you:

Now, in this day time, with several bootleg copies of music software floating around (Finale, Sibelius, MidiSoft, etc..), Arrangers are all of sudden growing on trees. People are so much as going on Finale Showcase or Midi websites, stealing it, putting their names on it and passing it out like its theirs. Something that is totally uncool.

But my question to you is:

1. If your computer crashes or you don't have access to any music writing software, are you able or still able to produce a "QUALITY" arrangement for your band or whoever you're arranging for?

I asked this question to several people and they did one of 2 things: Got mad and took offense to it or straight up admitted that they couldn't do it.
Click to expand...
:lmao: I make it my business to do both. I feel a computer can only do so much. If you don't know the different transposition of instruments, theory and how to subdivide syncopation,...you don't need to be on anybody's computer. I notice a lot of cuttin' and pasting and old school music wasn't quite written like that.
As for folks stealing people's arrangement (ghost writers),....every musician/arranger have their own style/signature. They have something that stands out. Ex: Sargeant(FAMU),... when you hear all those passing tones and symphonic endings,..you know it's him. I know that kind of crap goes on but God bless the child that's got his own. I think all these programs are good for the musician because we don't have too much time anymore. If you have a good theoretical and over all musical foundation,...it's an asset. I also feel that it's a handicap to the lazy musician that depends on a computer to think and write for them.
 
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Mr. Phreeze said:
I remember when he was teaching a select few of us, and the students thought he was crazy when he told us that we had hand-write our first piece. You guys wouldn't believe all the complaints and arguments that caused. He eliminated a lot of people because of that. I can also remember in one of our sessions, he brought a radio, played certain excerpts, and told the entire group to write out the "RHYTHMS" they hear. Now, he didn't say anything about the pitches yet, he said "RHYTHMS." You wouldn't believe some of the crazy rhythms and incorrect stem placements on notes that some people wrote down.
Click to expand...

Ha! You remember that! Man some of the aspiring cat I see now will go one step further, they will come with a song they downloaded from midi.com or a site like that and tell me they did this song. Now it will have drums(we doing drum parts now) and all kinds of keyboard stuff in it and when I ask them to "play" the chord they will have 5 thumbs and can't play the chord! Nor can they identify it! Not to mention the strange doubling and tripling they do as well talking about the song is a power song! Kids these days!!!!
 
philharmonic said:
Ha! You remember that! Man some of the aspiring cat I see now will go one step further, they will come with a song they downloaded from midi.com or a site like that and tell me they did this song. Now it will have drums(we doing drum parts now) and all kinds of keyboard stuff in it and when I ask them to "play" the chord they will have 5 thumbs and can't play the chord! Nor can they identify it! Not to mention the strange doubling and tripling they do as well talking about the song is a power song! Kids these days!!!!
Click to expand...

:lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao::lmao:
 
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