Are SWAC fans expectations too high?

[Newspaperman]

I hear fans of SWAC teams on here and during games complain.....and complain....and complain. But are we really evaluating our market and product fairly and honestly? First thing is, black people are a niche. We make up less than 20 percent of the population. Secondly, sports fans are a niche. Not everyone that graduates from a university, whether it be a PWI or HBCU, is a college sports fan. And finally, black college sports is a niche. So what we're dealing with is a niche....of a niche....of a niche.

The one thing that separates us from big-time college athletics is that the only fans of our schools are alumni. In comparision, look at Alabama or LSU or even a school like Ole Miss. You can find people with car tags, t-shirts, jerseys, etc. who have no connection with the school, but give regualrly, attend games and represent for that university.

That doesn't exist for black schools.

Hell, even our fans follow Mississippi State and Ole Miss and sometimes attend games. You think you'll ever catch Mississippi State alums at an Alcorn State game?

All I'm saying is that its time that we has SWAC and HBCU sports fans realize what we are. We won't get 60,000 people to our games. Our market doesn't cater to a large audience. Is that too much to get people to understand?

 

[tweed24]

I hear fans of SWAC teams on here and during games complain.....and complain....and complain. But are we really evaluating our market and product fairly and honestly? First thing is, black people are a niche. We make up less than 20 percent of the population. Secondly, sports fans are a niche. Not everyone that graduates from a university, whether it be a PWI or HBCU, is a college sports fan. And finally, black college sports is a niche. So what we're dealing with is a niche....of a niche....of a niche.

The one thing that separates us from big-time college athletics is that the only fans of our schools are alumni. In comparision, look at Alabama or LSU or even a school like Ole Miss. You can find people with car tags, t-shirts, jerseys, etc. who have no connection with the school, but give regualrly, attend games and represent for that university.

That doesn't exist for black schools.

Hell, even our fans follow Mississippi State and Ole Miss and sometimes attend games. You think you'll ever catch Mississippi State alums at an Alcorn State game?

All I'm saying is that its time that we has SWAC and HBCU sports fans realize what we are. We won't get 60,000 people to our games. Our market doesn't cater to a large audience. Is that too much to get people to understand?

To answer your questions, yes expectations are too high. The only people who care about swac sports are people who attended a swac school.

 

[Kendrick]

To answer your questions, yes expectations are too high. The only people who care about swac sports are people who attended a swac school.

You can say that about every group from mid-major FBS/D-1 to DIII. The only game in town that matters is the BCS level in major college football and basketball.

 

[Panther88]

I hear fans of SWAC teams on here and during games complain.....and complain....and complain. But are we really evaluating our market and product fairly and honestly? First thing is, black people are a niche. We make up less than 20 percent of the population. Secondly, sports fans are a niche. Not everyone that graduates from a university, whether it be a PWI or HBCU, is a college sports fan. And finally, black college sports is a niche. So what we're dealing with is a niche....of a niche....of a niche.

The one thing that separates us from big-time college athletics is that the only fans of our schools are alumni. In comparision, look at Alabama or LSU or even a school like Ole Miss. You can find people with car tags, t-shirts, jerseys, etc. who have no connection with the school, but give regualrly, attend games and represent for that university.

That doesn't exist for black schools.

Hell, even our fans follow Mississippi State and Ole Miss and sometimes attend games. You think you'll ever catch Mississippi State alums at an Alcorn State game?

All I'm saying is that its time that we has SWAC and HBCU sports fans realize what we are. We won't get 60,000 people to our games. Our market doesn't cater to a large audience. Is that too much to get people to understand?

Interesting. Nice post, btw. Although I do believe that @ it's height, HBCUism-recent past actually garnered a niche of the casual fans in a much larger scale than it does today. :read: Look @ how even the classics #s have fallen <b>significantly</b> over the last 25-30 years. Also, I don't think it wrong for some to have high expectations but in factuality the expectations does NOT match the product.

 

[tweed24]

You can say that about every group from mid-major FBS/D-1 to DIII. The only game in town that matters is the BCS level in major college football and basketball.

Mid-Majors FBS/D-1 play a better style of football and they are watchable on tv. Swac football is slow motion on espnu. They also have a solid fanbase. Most swac school fan base is below average. More discipline,fundmental sound football.

 

[Kendrick]

Mid-Majors FBS/D-1 play a better style of football and they are watchable on tv. Swac football is slow motion on espnu. They also have a solid fanbase. Most swac school fan base is below average. More discipline,fundmental sound football.

So folks outside the A-10 care about that conference? You think there is a large audience for MAC football outside of MAC fans like there is for the big six conferences?

 

[jstate83]

I hear fans of SWAC teams on here and during games complain.....and complain....and complain. But are we really evaluating our market and product fairly and honestly? First thing is, black people are a niche. We make up less than 20 percent of the population. Secondly, sports fans are a niche. Not everyone that graduates from a university, whether it be a PWI or HBCU, is a college sports fan. And finally, black college sports is a niche. So what we're dealing with is a niche....of a niche....of a niche.
The one thing that separates us from big-time college athletics is that the only fans of our schools are alumni. In comparision, look at Alabama or LSU or even a school like Ole Miss. You can find people with car tags, t-shirts, jerseys, etc. who have no connection with the school, but give regualrly, attend games and represent for that university.

That doesn't exist for black schools.

Hell, even our fans follow Mississippi State and Ole Miss and sometimes attend games. You think you'll ever catch Mississippi State alums at an Alcorn State game?

All I'm saying is that its time that we has SWAC and HBCU sports fans realize what we are. We won't get 60,000 people to our games. Our market doesn't cater to a large audience. Is that too much to get people to understand?

So whos fault is it that HBCU's continue to circle the HBCU wagon and only go after that "nitch" black market..................:noidea:.

The SWAC Fan that has gotten to tired to even care anymore because they know their leaders are either not going to listen or just continue to do the same stuff year after year.

The SWAC leaders that continue to make decisions that further isolate us or put our events in areas that don't care or even know who we are. In short, still following the same formula we had back in 1985 as for promoting our sports.

 

[JR]

So whos fault is it that HBCU's continue to circle the HBCU wagon and only go after that "nitch" black market..................:noidea:.

The SWAC Fan that has gotten to tired to even care anymore because they know their leaders are either not going to listen or just continue to do the same stuff year after year.

The SWAC leaders that continue to make decisions that further isolate us or put our events in areas that don't care or even know who we are. In short, still following the same formula we had back in 1985 as for promoting our sports.

It was too late anyway Frat. Once the old heads who supported our schools started dying off or gotten to old to go the games. The new and younger grads got other things on their mind. Society is different now that then. Even the TV shows have changed. You can't put all the blame on the leaders in the 80s and 90s. It was nothing they could have done. We were not giving money like talking about then. We just attended games better. We were already behind then and didn't realize it. Nobody cares about the little guys no more. Especially in Football. They want the big boys to dominate. Except in basketball were they capitalize on March Madness. Have few upsets but at the end, one of the major schools win the whole thing.

The only chance we had was moving like Boise State did back then. But even then, we couldn't beat those schools on the playing field for whatever reasons. I don't why we so hell bent on thinking we were ever going to get on a Alabama, LSU, Notre Dame, or Ohio State type level. We just would never have enough students and graduates to be at that level. After the black community that used to support HBCUs has changed and shifted. We lost the other folks outside of our grads who cared about our programs. Our fans need to shut the fugg up complaining about why we are not this or that and really go think about it.They have no clue what it takes. Heck most of the mid major schools are not happy with their product. A lot don't draw flies to their games. We just see it worse on our level. But outside of the major programs. Not many are successful. Just throwing money down the drain trying to compete.

Maybe the Ivy League has it right. They don't give athletic scholarships and they don't go to the playoffs. They play for the fun of it and all you can win is the Ivy League title. They ain't blowing money on trying to entertain some fans on Saturdays. As for SWAC leaders now. Well we all can control that. Hold each President/Chancellor accountable for their actions or non action. The bottom line is the SWAC page and a handful of fans at games complaining ain't enough numbers to get folks in leadership positions to do anything.

 

[Blacknbengal]

I hear fans of SWAC teams on here and during games complain.....and complain....and complain. But are we really evaluating our market and product fairly and honestly? First thing is, black people are a niche. We make up less than 20 percent of the population. Secondly, sports fans are a niche. Not everyone that graduates from a university, whether it be a PWI or HBCU, is a college sports fan. And finally, black college sports is a niche. So what we're dealing with is a niche....of a niche....of a niche.

The one thing that separates us from big-time college athletics is that the only fans of our schools are alumni. In comparision, look at Alabama or LSU or even a school like Ole Miss. You can find people with car tags, t-shirts, jerseys, etc. who have no connection with the school, but give regualrly, attend games and represent for that university.

That doesn't exist for black schools.

Hell, even our fans follow Mississippi State and Ole Miss and sometimes attend games. You think you'll ever catch Mississippi State alums at an Alcorn State game?

All I'm saying is that its time that we has SWAC and HBCU sports fans realize what we are. We won't get 60,000 people to our games. Our market doesn't cater to a large audience. Is that too much to get people to understand?

Not for what we're paying them for.

 

[the band fan]

Have you all watched a Tuesday night MAC football game? Nothing special about that...

The SWAC has a niche and its a good niche compared to the regional PWC who overspends only to get nowhere as they'll never surpass the big state school...

the SWAC school's next step is to seriously challenge the small PWCs in an area for market share and brand awareness...not hard if you win and spend wisely along with hiring the right people...not hookups

 

[TSU/BAMA]

....... The only people who care about swac sports are people who attended a swac school.

There are exceptions to that rule. For the most part I agree with you. But there are people who care about SWAC sports who did not attend a SWAC school.

 

[tweed24]

So folks outside the A-10 care about that conference? You think there is a large audience for MAC football outside of MAC fans like there is for the big six conferences?

at the end of the day, folks outside might not care but they have a more solid fan base. i'm sure those people in the A-10 don't attend games to see the bands and leave after halftime.Some come for the fashion show. *shrugs* Same goes for MAC conference its a better brand of football with a solid fan base even if the only people who watch are the people who attend MAC schools. MAC games on a tuesday might not be the best game but its more watchable than a swac game on espnu on a Thursday night

 

[SUjagTILLiDIE]

The one thing that separates us from big-time college athletics is that the only fans of our schools are alumni. In comparision, look at Alabama or LSU or even a school like Ole Miss. You can find people with car tags, t-shirts, jerseys, etc. who have no connection with the school, but give regualrly, attend games and represent for that university.

That doesn't exist for black schools.

A large portion of SU fans are non alums.

 

[In_The_662]

Have you all watched a Tuesday night MAC football game? Nothing special about that...

The SWAC has a niche and its a good niche compared to the regional PWC who overspends only to get nowhere as they'll never surpass the big state school...

the SWAC school's next step is to seriously challenge the small PWCs in an area for market share and brand awareness...not hard if you win and spend wisely along with hiring the right people...not hookups

Or a Wednesday night MAC/Sun Belt game... like some have said, even the alums of those schools aren't as interested as many think. I always think of Jay Crawford when I think of those type of alums. Born and raised in Ohio. Graduated from Bowling Green but got his masters from Ohio State. Guess which schools he roots for more? :lol: (At least when he was hosting First Take he acknowledged BGSU on his jackets). Doesn't that sound like a lot of our alums recently in the past 10-15 years who graduate from our schools, get their masters from somewhere else and don't give back? Despite a few bad apples, that's why I like this board because at least 90% care deeply for their schools and rep it everywhere even if they've got their advanced degrees from another school

The MAC championship game featured two ranked teams with a BCS berth on the line and ASU/JSU outdrew them easily. They showed an Arkansas State game on Tuesday this past season and if there were 15,000 fans in the stands you could have fooled me.

We've said this before on here. Improve the coaching. Invest more into our programs. The fans will come.

As some have said before, basketball might be the sport we might need to hitch our horses to and get behind. SU and Alcorn are the (eligible) class of the SWAC this year and could realistically beat Niagara or Bucknell or one of those types of teams. Mike Davis is gonna get TSU right as long as they have him. UAPB is always competitive. Valley is gonna get back right because we always compete. Once JSU and PV get back right and ditch their coaches, the SWAC could do some things in basketball if pushed right. We just need to get the best games on TV.

 

[yis2003yis]

A large portion of SU fans are non alums.

I was just thinking the same thing.....alot of my family did not attend SU.....but bleed blue and gold

 

[JR]

Or a Wednesday night MAC/Sun Belt game... like some have said, even the alums of those schools aren't as interested as many think. I always think of Jay Crawford when I think of those type of alums. Born and raised in Ohio. Graduated from Bowling Green but got his masters from Ohio State. Guess which schools he roots for more? :lol: (At least when he was hosting First Take he acknowledged BGSU on his jackets). Doesn't that sound like a lot of our alums recently in the past 10-15 years who graduate from our schools, get their masters from somewhere else and don't give back? Despite a few bad apples, that's why I like this board because at least 90% care deeply for their schools and rep it everywhere even if they've got their advanced degrees from another school

The MAC championship game featured two ranked teams with a BCS berth on the line and ASU/JSU outdrew them easily. They showed an Arkansas State game on Tuesday this past season and if there were 15,000 fans in the stands you could have fooled me.

We've said this before on here. Improve the coaching. Invest more into our programs. The fans will come.

As some have said before, basketball might be the sport we might need to hitch our horses to and get behind. SU and Alcorn are the (eligible) class of the SWAC this year and could realistically beat Niagara or Bucknell or one of those types of teams. Mike Davis is gonna get TSU right as long as they have him. UAPB is always competitive. Valley is gonna get back right because we always compete. Once JSU and PV get back right and ditch their coaches, the SWAC could do some things in basketball if pushed right. We just need to get the best games on TV.

Hell I know alot of cats like that who went to MAC schools and went to Ohio State with me for Grad school. Them white boys are straight Ohio State fans. Even before Grad School. Some either couldn't afford OSU undergrad or just decided to go to undergrad closer to home. But they are huge Buckeye fans. Hell most of the 100K plus fans in the stadium have never attended a class at Ohio State. That's how it is for most of these PWCs that are on the BCS level.

For us, we used to be able to count on the community surrounding our schools. But unfortunately those communities have died along with some of our big supporters who never went to our schools but believed in our mission. The black businesses and such. Now we have to find that new audience and also reclaim our own lost audience. It can be done on a mid level scale. But I think the days of the big large crowds in the 80s and 90s for football and basketball for us HBCUs may be long gone. I sure hated we took all that for granted back then.

 

[the band fan]

those folks in the big crowds then....alot of them had children and they sent them to play elsewhere which caused alot of them not to come back

Remember in the 80s we were watching NFL talent consistently...

When Hugh Douglas of freaking Central State gets on his ESPN talk show and straight says he did not want his daughter to attend Alabama State (she ended up going anyway) just multiply that times those 40K at a JSU game in 1988

 

[JR]

those folks in the big crowds then....alot of them had children and they sent them to play elsewhere which caused alot of them not to come back

Remember in the 80s we were watching NFL talent consistently...

When Hugh Douglas of freaking Central State gets on his ESPN talk show and straight says he did not want his daughter to attend Alabama State (she ended up going anyway) just multiply that times those 40K at a JSU game in 1988

But those are the athletes that do that. Hugh Douglas is one of those cats who thought he was big time after he made it and had nothing good to say about HBCUs. He probably never wanted to go to Central State but his dumb arse had no choice probably.

A lot of folks I went to school with kids have ended up at HBCUs as well. The thing is, a lot of the young HBCU alums just don't be as hyped about our schools as it was back then. What you also have to realize that 40K sitting in the stands at a JSU game in the 80s were not all JSU grads. The kids may have went to those games but if they moved away from Jackson to find work and never went to college themselves either. Chances are their kids grew up in the Atlantas, Houstons, Dallas, Memphis etc where they didn't see the same hype about HBCUs as they may have in Jackson with JSU or in a Baton Rouge with SU. But they no longer have ties to their folks hometowns if Grandma and nem done passed on. We lost a generation of folks after HBCUs stop being popular with the celebs. When you saw Cosby or Different World. Or any Videos from the 80s and early 90s and folks had HBCU gear on it made you even think about it. Videos being shot on HBCU campuses. We lost the black pride movement. It was super cool to be black and down with black stuff in the 80s and 90s. But you could see it eroding away little by little.

There are a boat load of reasons why our HBCUs lost some luster. Honestly it was the kids that came in the 90s during that run that have largely abandoned their alma maters. If you even look on this board. The main ones who are hard core HBCU are mostly early 90s and back grads. The entitlement generation is probably with your group of grads and later. We didn't expect nothing when we got to college. But just glad to be there. LOL. Yall came in wanting all the amenities as you had grown up more than previous generations. I grew up middle class MS. But since our parents were from the old days of hard knocks. You got treated that way. LOL. We learned to love our schools even when they fugged us over on registration. We didn't take it personally. Now you hear grads say I will not send my kid to SU or wherever because they had a bad experience. That's the kind of mentality you deal with. So they promote sending their kids to PWCs. Because they are still pissed with their school. I can understand the athletes somewhat if they are highly recruited and have a possible NFL or NBA future. Since those leagues are not drafting our kids anymore. It is a hard sell to get those type of athletes you mentioned we saw back in the day. But we also had better coaching back then too. Now our better black coaches get snatched up before we can even get them. So now we have subpar product with subpar coaching with already fickle arse fans which = to us not having the same success at gate as we used to. Not to mention so much other stuff you can do these days to entertain yourself. We got work to do.

 

[In_The_662]

those folks in the big crowds then....alot of them had children and they sent them to play elsewhere which caused alot of them not to come back

Remember in the 80s we were watching NFL talent consistently...

When Hugh Douglas of freaking Central State gets on his ESPN talk show and straight says he did not want his daughter to attend Alabama State (she ended up going anyway) just multiply that times those 40K at a JSU game in 1988

The WSSU fans on Twitter straight roasted Stephen A. Smith this past season during their run to the D2 title game because he didn't even acknowledge their historic run at ALL. Guys on Facebook even made him a custom WSSU cardigan to wear (I might get him to make me a Valley one. He is good :lol: ). Those are the type of alums we have to deal with in positions to help but have turned their back.

Marcellus Wiley shouts out Columbia every chance he gets even if they don't need it lol

 

[skyvolt2000]

at the end of the day, folks outside might not care but they have a more solid fan base. i'm sure those people in the A-10 don't attend games to see the bands and leave after halftime.Some come for the fashion show. *shrugs* Same goes for MAC conference its a better brand of football with a solid fan base even if the only people who watch are the people who attend MAC schools. MAC games on a tuesday might not be the best game but its more watchable than a swac game on espnu on a Thursday night

Also those communities embrace those schools. Look at some of those midmajor schools-the communities embrace them. They might not go to the school but many take advantage of the schools when they play games. Especially those who can't afford to attend those big name school games.

Issue with the black colleges is-what communities embrace them? Paul Quinn is still looked at as a joke in Dallas.

Also how many HBCUS are active in school districts? How many DISD kids have passed over SWAC for community colleges, SMU, North Texas and other midmajor schools because they have a foot in the door of DISD? Get those SWAC chapters into some school districts. It doesn't have to be about sports. Get some mentor programs into a few schools and who knows who you might get that got passed over by other schools.

 

[In_The_662]

Also those communities embrace those schools. Look at some of those midmajor schools-the communities embrace them. They might not go to the school but many take advantage of the schools when they play games. Especially those who can't afford to attend those big name school games.

Issue with the black colleges is-what communities embrace them? Paul Quinn is still looked at as a joke in Dallas.

Also how many HBCUS are active in school districts? How many DISD kids have passed over SWAC for community colleges, SMU, North Texas and other midmajor schools because they have a foot in the door of DISD? Get those SWAC chapters into some school districts. It doesn't have to be about sports. Get some mentor programs into a few schools and who knows who you might get that got passed over by other schools.

That's a good point as well...

 

[KILLER-LION]

Guys its marketing on our parts. We have forgotten what is important and who is important. There is no way in the world we the SWAC should be having this conversation especially being located in the area we are. I understand we compete with the PWC for the best black students but our presence has to be made and not just heard of. We have the mentality that the black community owe us so they will and should come to us but its not like that. Take UAPB in some parts of Arkansas the school is not even mentioned no bill boards no recruits no nothing and expect to get the blacks in those areas its not gonna happen. We must first put a plan together to not only attract atheletes but non atheletes to increase enrollment and keep them once we get them that is number one. Make the campus attractive, I hate to say it but be open to more non black students to recieve more federal funds on the slick side just as our PWC conterparts.

Stop being suckers for whatever is throne at you and market our schools like their worth. STop trying to be the dayum SEC because we are not we are the SWAC so lets get to doing SWAC business.

 

[the band fan]

PQC was not founded in Dallas, suffered from bad moves and rarely anyone knows who Bishop College was which they replaced...DISD and the surrounding areas suffers from lack of a state HBCU presence as those kids aren't going anywhere and they think all HBCUs are alike in Dallas from Wiley to PV

Marketing isn't the problem...we need a generational player to bridge the gap....you had Payton to Williams to Strahan...Why ain't Donald Driver and Alcorn State thrown out there every second?

 

[tweed24]

Also those communities embrace those schools. Look at some of those midmajor schools-the communities embrace them. They might not go to the school but many take advantage of the schools when they play games. Especially those who can't afford to attend those big name school games.

Issue with the black colleges is-what communities embrace them? Paul Quinn is still looked at as a joke in Dallas.

Also how many HBCUS are active in school districts? How many DISD kids have passed over SWAC for community colleges, SMU, North Texas and other midmajor schools because they have a foot in the door of DISD? Get those SWAC chapters into some school districts. It doesn't have to be about sports. Get some mentor programs into a few schools and who knows who you might get that got passed over by other schools.

Thats a great point!. The people in the community who dont attend the school still attend football games.They support that school because thats the only thing around. How many Locals in Jackson attend JSU football games? How many Locals in Greenwood attend Valley games and so forth? I dont think the percentage is that high.
Does Jackson State have any involvement with JPD? a little of subject but i feel like JSU should win the swac or be in contention every year with all that talent in jackson when it comes to basketball.

I dont believe there are any swac schools involved in school districts. The closes you will get is prolly High School day.

 

[emptyright]

I dont believe in expectations... Im a huge believer in goal setting... Set goals you can attain.. For the level the SWAC is on yes expectations are too high.. You got to have RESOURCES behind those expectations...