Are Alternative Fuels Really an Energy Panacea?


Bartram

Bartram

Brand HBCUbian
There's much to say about fuel cells, alternative energy in the midst of rising gas prices, but do you REALLY THINK going to alternative fuels is going to be this great freedom from the rising price of gas/fossil fuel?

Now don't get me wrong, i'm all for, for example, vegetable (PEANUT) oil diesel power for cars and what not are you freaking kidding me? we could grow peanuts and/or soybeans all day LONG to supply peanut/soy oil that could run diesel engines. We could also grow corn, sugar cane, sugar beets all day long to supply organic material to make ethanol, all good stuff, but do you REALLY THINK that if we go down this route, the price for a gallon of alternative fuel will drop back to like 50-75 cents?

NOPE! I can just about guarantee you if, right now, we could instantly have alternative fuel, producers and all would come up with a price per gallon that would be basically the same as what gas is going for,, like instead of almost $3.00 it would be like $2.50-$2.75 and they would say, "well uugh,, the reason it's not that much less is because of putting the infrastructure in place and there's not enough supply to meet the demand". :rolleyes:

If you think alternative fuels would be a boon and waay much less than fossil fuels, like say 75 cents a gallon or something, please tell me why you think that would be the case, i'm all ears. :|
 
The entire ocean is one big source of alternative and pretty much perpetual fuel. I have yet to see a real reason as to why its not being used. That leads me to believe that the biggest reason is that they haven't figured out how to rape the poor with it yet.
 



Bartram said:
There's much to say about fuel cells, alternative energy in the midst of rising gas prices, but do you REALLY THINK going to alternative fuels is going to be this great freedom from the rising price of gas/fossil fuel?

Now don't get me wrong, i'm all for, for example, vegetable (PEANUT) oil diesel power for cars and what not are you freaking kidding me? we could grow peanuts and/or soybeans all day LONG to supply peanut/soy oil that could run diesel engines. We could also grow corn, sugar cane, sugar beets all day long to supply organic material to make ethanol, all good stuff, but do you REALLY THINK that if we go down this route, the price for a gallon of alternative fuel will drop back to like 50-75 cents?

NOPE! I can just about guarantee you if, right now, we could instantly have alternative fuel, producers and all would come up with a price per gallon that would be basically the same as what gas is going for,, like instead of almost $3.00 it would be like $2.50-$2.75 and they would say, "well uugh,, the reason it's not that much less is because of putting the infrastructure in place and there's not enough supply to meet the demand". :rolleyes:

If you think alternative fuels would be a boon and waay much less than fossil fuels, like say 75 cents a gallon or something, please tell me why you think that would be the case, i'm all ears. :|
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There is no simple answer, but here is my input.

The increase in energy prices makes known alternative fuels affordable. The use of alternative fuels will cut US demand, but does not help reduce the demand in China and other countries. The higher the cost of oil and gas, they alternative fuels will gain greater share of the market. Look what?s going on in Brazil.

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/4581955.stm


We are better off if we can find alternatives to oil and gas ? Nuclear, Solar, Wind and alternative bio fuels. Tax policy should be used to encourage research. There is a potential of well paying jobs if we can get the alternative fuel programs going in this country.
 
Hydrogen...where do you get it...water...what do you get when you burn it...water.

I've seen the GM commercial talking about their hydrogen research...lets see if it ever gets to market. I really haven't seen a reason to look any further than this very abundant fuel source. If you focused researched on rapidly seperating water we'd be on our way. But I honestly believe the problem is that they just don't want to.
 
BLAQUE PRINCE said:
Hydrogen...where do you get it...water...what do you get when you burn it...water.

I've seen the GM commercial talking about their hydrogen research...lets see if it ever gets to market. I really haven't seen a reason to look any further than this very abundant fuel source. If you focused researched on rapidly seperating water we'd be on our way. But I honestly believe the problem is that they just don't want to.
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It is a good alternative - but they have to resolve the potential explosion problem.
 
Actually the use of alternative fuels is not meant to stop our dependence on fossil fuels, but to reduce the use of these products. We will continue to need fossil fuels for energy for many years, but we must reduce the use of these products.

The reason you will start to see more alternative fuels is not only based on the price of oil and gass, but also the pressure from the environmental pollution that results from the over use of fossil fuels. These things in conjunction with rising gas prices, global warming, redeuction of the ozone layer, massive heat waves etc. will drive the faster implentation of alternative fuel sources. But beleive me, the use of gas isn't going away anytime in our lifetime.

Suge
Environmental Science Teacher
 
BLAQUE PRINCE said:
From some reading a while back it doesn't seem to be a problem.
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yeah chief i was about to say, the problem with hydrogen is it is more unstable than gasoline.

had first hand experience with hydrogen as a kid. you know the science project where you put zinc and copper electrodes in salt water and capture pure hydrogen and oxygen in test tubes over the electrodes? sticking a flame to the hydrogen tube, it popped in a small explosion more quickly than propane or natural gas!

now gas is bad, but i think with hydrogen being in a gasious state (don't know how they would distribute it as a common fuel, liquid hydrogen storage on small vehicles may be too cost prohibitive), that makes it even more dangerous with a much lower flash point that even gas. but yeah, generally, hydrogen would be the alternative fuel answer or at least a very good one.

i would still contend that after all the BS, the price per unit of whatever alternative fuel you come up with would not be much different than whatever the going rate per unit of gas is.
 
"i would still contend that after all the BS, the price per unit of whatever alternative fuel you come up with would not be much different than whatever the going rate per unit of gas is."

Bart - your statement goes back to my pricing model that I mentioned in my first response.
 
SMH

Yes I know its explosive...8 times as powerful as gasoline I believe.

What I was getting at is that I also remembered reading claims of safe ways to store and use it. Thats why I said from what I remembered reading it wasn't much of a problem. Mind you if lightning hit your gas tank you'd have your own miniature Hindenberg. I do not believe with some of the other advances in technology that we are seeing that this could not be made safe.

I will check what GM is researching now because I think they are working on hydrogen combustion and not fuel cells.
 
BLAQUE PRINCE said:
SMH

Yes I know its explosive...8 times as powerful as gasoline I believe.

What I was getting at is that I also remembered reading claims of safe ways to store and use it. Thats why I said from what I remembered reading it wasn't much of a problem. Mind you if lightning hit your gas tank you'd have your own miniature Hindenberg. I do not believe with some of the other advances in technology that we are seeing that this could not be made safe.

I will check what GM is researching now because I think they are working on hydrogen combustion and not fuel cells.
Click to expand...

GM invested big bucks in both areas.
 



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