60 million dollar stadium shut down


jag4life said:
The engineer who stamps that structural drawing is ultimately responsible for the structural integrity of that area. A Lead Designer has no authority over whether codes and standards are met.

The article doesn't mention ANY employees of the company, just the company itself.
Click to expand...

You are both right and wrong too. Yes the Structural Engineer who put his P.E. stamp on the drawing is ultimately responsible, but the Lead Design Firm is also responsible too, since they hired the Structural Engineer. They also had control of the design budget and it might be just possible the Structural Engineer works directly for them, which means he or she could be one of their full time employees. As of now, WE have gone into the area of speculation, because who knows how the Lead Design Firm setup their design team. They could have decided to go at it alone without having a Structural Engineer to stamp the structural plans. If that was the case, the code reviewers should have made them acquire a Structural Engineer's stamp before they approved the plan.
 
Last edited:



It seems like by now they would have released in the media PBK's engineering design team, unless PBK have a team of engineers that works directly for them. The worse company an engineer can work for is a firm ran by architects. Guess which budget items gets eliminated if the design plans are not within budget.

PBK Architects designed the stadium, while Pogue Construction served as contractor.
Click to expand...

It does seem like corners were cut since the contractor is being sued by the subcontractor that provided the concrete, which is definitely a sign of smoking gun for bad concrete. Can we say water down concrete, basically adding too much water to make the concrete easier and faster to work with, but also weakens the design strength, since the water ratio in the mixture is more than it should have been. But that's just speculation too until the forensic report is completed and all the details in the lawsuit are finalized and are out in the open.

Documents from the lawsuit, obtained by The Dallas Morning News, show that the concrete provider Potter Structures is seeking more than $1 million, alleging breach of contract by Pogue. The construction company did not pay the concrete provider after problems with the stadium surfaced. The lawsuit was filed in September.

Court records now show a jury trial set for February in Collin County, though both parties agreed to mediation in March. Pogue said his company is in discussions with Potter.

The concrete provider didn’t respond to a request for comment. It’s unclear how the district’s findings will affect the lawsuit, but Pogue elaborated in a statement.

“Subject to the law, until Allen ISD confirms that it is satisfied with the quality of concrete workmanship at the stadium or it is determined that the funds are no longer needed to protect Allen ISD, Pogue intends to hold the funds in reserve to protect Allen,” the statement read.

PBK and Pogue have avoided speculating on repair cost estimates in their public comments.

But in Pogue’s response to the Potter lawsuit — filed in November — the company claimed that the money sought by the subcontractor might not be enough to fix the problem.

“It is anticipated that the cost of repairing or replacing the defective work may significantly exceed any amount Potter claims is owed to it at this time,” Pogue said in court records.
Click to expand...

It would be wise for Prairie View to keep up with this lawsuit since their stadium was designed by PBK.
 
Last edited:
Here's another news report on the stadium. It definitely sounds likes PBK Architects and Pogue Construction will share the cost in repairing the stadium.

The deficiencies may not be visible, but their design does not meet building codes, particularly in high winds for the press box and scoreboard, and they must be fixed, Chancey said. Examples of the structural deficiencies uncovered beyond the concourse are:

•inadequate concrete columns that support the press box;
•insufficient steel framing of the press box;
•connections at the base of the main scoreboard are not strong enough;
•a retaining wall does not have adequate steel reinforcement.

http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Al...From-Stadium-Engineering-Study-263854941.html
Click to expand...

The information above in bold concerns me the most. It sounds like the architectural firm and the construction firm was able to cut corners by not following the required building codes, which was an oversight by the local municipality that review plans for conformance of the local building codes. But Texas is a Red State that thinks government regulations impedes progress no matter how it effects the health and safety of the public. Also, per the engineering report, the deficiencies listed above goes beyond the visible cracks in the concourse.

Below is an attached copy of the forensic engineer's summary report. The report shows architectural plans as a reference to where the deficiencies are located. Those plans were stamped by a license architect in Texas. I have yet to see a set of plans stamped by a license engineer in Texas. In most cases, a person can easily identify engineering plans by referencing the first letter of each page numbering:

C - Civil
S - Structural
M - Mechanical
E - Electrical

http://allenisd.org/cms/lib/TX01001...38/Nelson Forensics - AHS Stadium 6-19-14.pdf
 
Last edited:
number1 said:
Still wouldn't hurt to pay attention to it.
Click to expand...

If I was them I would, because it sounds like PBK Architects are developing plans with very little professional engineering input. I used to work with a bunch of sports and landscape architects and their philosophy was "presentation is the most important thing to a project, no matter if it works or not".
 
Last edited:
the band fan said:
pbk designed the berry center nearby and it has no problems and has alot of cement also....
Click to expand...

You do realize cement is just one of the three composite materials (water, aggregate, cement) in concrete.

Now that PBK has been found to be partially at fault for the Allen ISD stadium design flaws, IMO it would be wise that Prairie View hired a trustworthy independent engineering firm to review their plans and perform construction management over the entire project between PBK and the construction firm hired to build the project, unless Prairie View has an individual on its campus that is skilled to do that type of work.
 
Last edited:
JAG89 said:
If I was them I would, because it sounds like PBK Architects are developing plans with very little professional engineering input. I used to work with a bunch of sports and landscape architects and their philosophy was "presentation is the most important thing to a project, no matter if it works or not".
Click to expand...
You don't know if they had "very little" engineering input". If you look at one of the slides in the presentation it has a list of consultants on one of the original PBK drawings and one of them is a civil engineering consultant.
 
jag4life said:
You don't know if they had "very little" engineering input". If you look at one of the slides in the presentation it has a list of consultants on one of the original PBK drawings and one of them is a civil engineering consultant.
Click to expand...

I saw that, but did they get an engineering consultant firm to design and stamp the plans or just consult? They have yet to produce a license engineer for this project, which I think they should since the forensic engineering summary report stated that poor engineering and code violation are the main causes of the deficiencies. Right now, all fingers are being pointed at PBK ARCHITECTS and Pogue Construction with a possibility of adding the concrete provider pending the lawsuit against Pogue Construction.

It seems like my initial observation was dead on when it comes to code enforcement in Texas, which is unfortunate for those living in Texas.

JAG89 said:
Whatever caused it, it is still due to poor oversight and ignoring construction regulations. Texas is currently a red state that believes in little to no government regulations, so that companies can maximize on their profit. Instead of doing it right the first time, it's probably going cost tax payers a lot more money just to fix the stadium. I bet the contractor cut so many corners to make a profit that the building code became totally irrelevant. I hope forensic engineering can determine who or what is responsible for the poor construction.
Click to expand...

Prairie View would be wise to find someone to review its stadium plans to make sure they are in conformance with the local building code before construction is started.

also, I didn't say I KNOW they had very little engineering input, but what I did say is that IT SOUNDS like they had very little engineering input, which means that everything I've read as of now has yet to produce a structural engineer for this project. Don't you think the structural engineer would be a key part in explaining the deficiencies in this project and his involvement would have been pointed out by now?
 
Last edited:
You will NEVER hear the name of any specific people who worked on this project. That's just how these types of investigations go. You will only hear from spokesmen of each company involved.
JAG89 said:
I saw that, but did they get an engineering consultant firm to design and stamp the plans or just consult? They have yet to produce a license engineer for this project, which I think they should since the forensic engineering summary report stated that poor engineering and code violation are the main causes of the deficiencies. Right now, all fingers are being pointed at PBK ARCHITECTS and Pogue Construction with a possibility of adding the concrete provider pending the lawsuit against Pogue Construction.

It seems like my initial observation was dead on when it comes to code enforcement in Texas, which is unfortunate for those living in Texas.



Prairie View would be wise to find someone to review its stadium plans to make sure they are in conformance with the local building code before construction is started.

also, I didn't say I KNOW they had very little engineering input, but what I did say is that IT SOUNDS like they had very little engineering input, which means that everything I've read as of now has yet to produce a structural engineer for this project. Don't you think the structural engineer would be a key part in explaining the deficiencies in this project and his involvement would have been pointed out by now?
Click to expand...
 
jag4life said:
You will NEVER hear the name of any specific people who worked on this project. That's just how these types of investigations go. You will only hear from spokesmen of each company involved.
Click to expand...

Who's Ben Pogue?

Here's a quote from Allen ISD Superintendent of Schools Lance Hindt.

"We have an issue with an architect and a contractor. I'm not going to speculate who's more responsible than the other – they can work that out amongst the two of them – but they've accepted that responsibility," said Hindt.

http://www.nbcdfw.com/news/local/Al...From-Stadium-Engineering-Study-263854941.html
Click to expand...

If an engineering firm was involved, which it such have been, the issues with the stadium would have included them too, particularly the structural engineer that stamped the structural drawings. The structural engineer's license would be on the line in this case.

IMO, there were a few individuals that knew that PBK Architects didn't properly design the stadium with the right design team and waited until problems started to occur to question their design method.

<script type="text/javascript" charset="UTF-8" src="http://www.nbcdfw.com/portableplayer/?cmsID=263924401&videoID=9NSflMRhbdhK&origin=nbcdfw.com&sec=news&subsec=local&width=600&height=360"></script>
 



jag4life said:
The owner (spokesman as I said) of Pogue construction. Best believe he wasn't the one pouring concrete.
Click to expand...

It doesn't matter. I'm sure he was well aware of the construction methods used on the project. He's definitely taking the heat along with PKB Architects for a poorly designed and constructed project.
 
Texas engineering board looking at Allen stadium flaws

http://www.dallasnews.com/news/comm...ring-board-looking-at-allen-stadium-flaws.ece

In an unrelated matter in the article, it appears PBK Architects designed a pair of Grand Prairie schools that had design flaws.

In an unrelated matter, Grand Prairie school officials filed court documents this month seeking to take depositions from PBK employees. The district is investigating whether design flaws in two of its schools by PBK led to $4 million in plumbing and related damage.

Grand Prairie officials said a geotechnical report on the land done before the design — and shared with PBK — noted that soil at the sites of the two schools had the conditions to cause high expansion, according to court filings. But after the buildings were constructed, soil expansion caused crushed pipes and leaks, according to the documents.
Click to expand...

It appears that PBK Architects are cutting some major corners in their designs. The last thing an engineer would want to do is ignore the recommendations listed in the Geotechnical Report, since that is the base foundation of any structure. Expansive soils or shrink-swell soils can cause major problems if not taken into account. In most cases, soil expansion occurs when there's a rise and fall in the ground water table near the ground surface, especially in clayey soils.
 
Last edited:
Running joke out here is "This is what happens when you let a Texas A & M Aggie engineer something"
 
MACKG said:
Running joke out here is "This is what happens when you let a Texas A & M Aggie engineer something"
Click to expand...

I've ran across a few Aggie engineers. They have some good ones and they have some bad ones. They all try to be a little cocky, but if you are not a good engineer, there's not any room for cockiness.

I knew this one Aggie engineer named Tye when I worked for the City of Los Angeles. He was relocated to my division in the Bureau's main office in City Hall East right after I started working for the City. Come to find out, the reason why they relocated him, he sexually assaulted a female engineering graduate from SU by slapping her on the butt. Once he was moved to main office, I'm sure the Bureau's Director was probably able to tell him that he can't go around arbitrarily hitting women on their butts, no matter what color they are. Tye later left the City of Los Angeles claiming that he was going back to school to become a lawyer. I do believe he thought it was okay for him to do what he did since it was rumored that most of the Black female support staff (administrative assistants and clerical staff) allowed that type of behavior to take place with a lot of the young White engineers. The sad thing about the inappropriate behavior between a lot of young White engineers and their Black female support staff, a lot of those women had children and were married to Black men. Donald Sterling is not the only racist mofo in Los Angeles that likes to screw different women of color. There's definitely a need to reverse the bed wench mentality with a lot of our sistas.
 
Last edited:
JAG89 said:
Texas engineering board looking at Allen stadium flaws

http://www.dallasnews.com/news/comm...ring-board-looking-at-allen-stadium-flaws.ece

In an unrelated matter in the article, it appears PBK Architects designed a pair of Grand Prairie schools that had design flaws.



It appears that PBK Architects are cutting some major corners in their designs. The last thing an engineer would want to do is ignore the recommendations listed in the Geotechnical Report, since that is the base foundation of any structure. Expansive soils or shrink-swell soils can cause major problems if not taken into account. In most cases, soil expansion occurs when there's a rise and fall in the ground water table near the ground surface, especially in clayey soils.
Click to expand...

They are about to lose a lot of potential business. Their architects and engineers screwed up big time.
 
jag4life said:
They are about to lose a lot of potential business. Their architects and engineers screwed up big time.
Click to expand...

This is what happens when you have architects in-charge of engineers.

I really hope Prairie View is taking note of this before they break ground on their on-campus football stadium.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top