31,000 Differing Christian Denominations. Why?

[dacontinent]

If this "theory" is true about a testator having to die, then who died and made the Old Testament legal? Who was it's testator?

Sir, this is the LEGAL DEFINITION of testament. No theory involved.

It has everything to do with it that's why you're avoiding answering the question. Why would the Jesus figure inspire pagan religious leaders to mix in their pagan doctrines with his "holy" doctrines under a pagan king?
If he did, he'd be dividing his own house and you know what he supposedly said about a house divided.

You KNOW that they are right? LOL!
YOU can tell me that your doctrines are right until you're blue in the face, but that proves nothing. The question is HOW do you know that your doctrines are accurate while the others aren't? That's it, you don't. You just think you do.

Tell me who's aren't and I might be able to speak to those issues.

Six will have died off, one would remain faithful. Now that we've cleared that up, BACK to the question you're trying to avoid. Fact of the matter is that none of the congregations in those eras were ever in sync. They all had differing doctrines except one. Even in the fictional stories of Revelation, there's no solidarity. just like there's no solidarity amongst the 31,000 denominations.

How did you come up with this? What were there doctrines? How were those doctrines different between the churches?

How is this supposed true church IN Christ when they don't even know for sure if their doctrines are accurate? Everyone's guessing and hoping that they are right. That's it in a nutshell.

The nature of your question reveals that you don't know who the antecedents of your they/their pronouns are.

No. There's still no concrete evidence that there ever was a Jesus figure as described in the New Testament. That hasn't changed.
The Romans simply fashioned the Jesus character after some of their gods at the request of Constantine in order to win over those from other religions. I think you already know this but are reluctant to admit it.
This is one of the main reasons as to why I know the religion is a man-made religion. It closely resembles that of other religions that came before it. It's very easy to verify.

In the Christian religion, no one knows if their doctrines are accurate. Folks and congregations are only guessing and hoping that what they actually believe will come to pass. They have no evidence to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that what they believe as being scripture is meant to be scripture in the first place.
So-called pagans claim that their gods will return one day as well. They're in the same boat as you are.

Knowing whether ones doctrines are are right merely needs a Scriptural evaluation. If they are in-line with Scripture (whole counsel), then they are right. Otherwise, they are wrong and revision is needed.

 

[JayRob]

Sir, this is the LEGAL DEFINITION of testament. No theory involved.

If it's the "legal definition, who died and made the Old Testament legal? You love to try and dodge questions. Hahahahaha!!!

It has everything to do with it that's why you're avoiding answering the question. Why would the Jesus figure inspire pagan religious leaders to mix in their pagan doctrines with his "holy" doctrines under a pagan king?
If he did, he'd be dividing his own house and you know what he supposedly said about a house divided.

You tried to dodge another one? Why would the Jesus figure inspire pagan religious leaders to mix in their pagan doctrines with his "holy" doctrines?

Tell me who's aren't and I might be able to speak to those issues.

What's the use? You can't even speak on your own doctrines as to whether or not they're accurate. You're just guessing just like everybody else.

How did you come up with this? What were there doctrines? How were those doctrines different between the churches?

Because that's what it says in Revelation regarding six of the seven. Only one, the Philadelphian era got it right. Read Revelation 2-3 for more of the story.
Whatever their doctrines were during those eras matters not because their history is already written in stone. According to the story, six of the seven eras were divided amongst themselves.

The nature of your question reveals that you don't know who the antecedents of your they/their pronouns are.

It doesn't matter about any past antecedents. The issue is where is this fictional true church right now? Fact of the matter is no one knows. No living person can even prove whether there's a "true" church. Folks are just guessing.
How many times do I have to say this before it sinks in?

Knowing whether ones doctrines are are right merely needs a Scriptural evaluation. If they are in-line with Scripture (whole counsel), then they are right. Otherwise, they are wrong and revision is needed.

Then which of the 31,000 or so doctrines is the right one? No one knows if their doctrinal interpretation is accurate, so your theory is just that....a theory, a hypothesis, A GUESS. In short, you don't know.

 

[dacontinent]

If it's the "legal definition, who died and made the Old Testament legal? You love to try and dodge questions. Hahahahaha!!!

Your ignorance is SCREAMING at us all.

You tried to dodge another one? Why would the Jesus figure inspire pagan religious leaders to mix in their pagan doctrines with his "holy" doctrines?

He didn't.

What's the use? You can't even speak on your own doctrines as to whether or not they're accurate. You're just guessing just like everybody else.

Maybe this will help you. I will give you the abbreviated version.

Our Beliefs

The Apostles’ Creed

I believe in God the Father Almighty, Maker of heaven and earth; and in Jesus Christ His only Son, our Lord; which was conceived by the Holy Ghost, born of the virgin Mary, suffered under Pontius Pilate, was crucified, dead, and buried; He descended into hell [that is, the place of the departed righteous]; the third day He rose again from the dead; He ascended into heaven; and sitteth on the right hand of God the Father Almighty; from thence He shall come to judge the quick and the dead. I believe in the Holy Ghost; the holy catholic [universal] church; the communion of saints; the forgiveness of sins; the resurrection of the body; and life everlasting. Amen.

Articles of Faith

1. We believe there is but one living and true God, everlasting, of infinite power, wisdom and goodness; Maker and Preserver of all things, both visible and invisible. And in the unity of this Godhead, there are three Persons of one substance of eternal being, and equal in holiness, justice, wisdom, power, and dignity; the Father, the Son, and the Holy Ghost.

2. We believe that the Son, who is the Word of the Father, the very and eternal God, of one substance with the Father, took man’s nature in the womb of the blessed virgin; so that two whole and perfect natures, that is to say, the Godhead and the manhood were joined together in one Person, never to be divided, whereof is one Christ, very God and perfect man, who actually suffered, was crucified, dead, and buried, to reconcile the Father to us, and to make atonement, not only for our actual guilt, but also for original sin.

3. We believe that Christ did truly rise again from the dead, and took again His body, with all things appertaining to the perfections of man’s nature, and ascended into heaven and there sits until He shall return to judge all men at the last day.

4. We believe the Holy Ghost, proceeding from the Father and the Son, is of one substance, majesty and glory with the Father and the Son, very and eternal God.

5. We believe in the verbal and plenary inspiration of the Holy Scriptures, known as the Bible, composed of sixty-six books and divided into two departments, Old and New Testaments. We believe the Bible is the Word of God, the full and complete revelation of the plan and history of redemption.

6. We believe that eternal life with God in heaven is a portion of the reward of the finally righteous; and that everlasting banishment from the presence of the Lord and unending torture in hell are the wages of the persistently wicked (Matthew 25:46; Psalm 9:17; Revelation 21:7, 8).

7. We believe that Jesus Christ shed His blood for the remission of sins that are past, for the regeneration of penitent sinners, and for salvation from sin and from sinning (Romans 3:25; 1 John 3:5-10; Ephesians 2:1-10).

8. We believe, teach and firmly maintain the scriptural doctrine of justification by faith alone (Romans 5:1).

9. We believe that Jesus Christ shed His blood for the complete cleansing of the justified believer from all indwelling sin and from its pollution, subsequent to regeneration (1 John 1:7-9).

10. We believe in sanctification. While sanctification is initiated in regeneration and consummated in glorification, we believe it includes a definite, instantaneous work of grace achieved by faith subsequent to regeneration (Acts 26:18; 1 John 1:9). Sanctification delivers from the power and dominion of sin. It is followed by lifelong growth in grace and knowledge of our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ (2 Corinthians 4:16; 2 Peter 3:18).

11. We believe that the Pentecostal baptism of the Holy Ghost and fire is obtainable by a definite act of appropriating faith on the part of the fully cleansed believer, and the initial evidence of the reception of this experience is speaking with other tongues as the Spirit gives utterance (Luke 11:13; Acts 1:5; 2:1-4; 8:17; 10:44-46; 19:6).

12. We believe in divine healing as in the atonement (Isaiah 53:4, 5; Matthew 8:16, 17; Mark 16:14-18; James 5:14-16; Exodus 15:26).

13. We believe in the imminent, personal, premillennial second coming of our Lord Jesus Christ (1 Thessalonians 4:15-17; Titus 2:13; 2 Peter 3:10-14; Matthew 24:29-44), and love and wait for His appearing (2 Timothy 4:8).

14. We believe it is the responsibility of every believer to dedicate his life to carrying out the work of the Great Commission (Matthew 28:18-20; Mark 16:15-20; Acts 1:8).

Because that's what it says in Revelation regarding six of the seven. Only one, the Philadelphian era got it right. Read Revelation 2-3 for more of the story.
Whatever their doctrines were during those eras matters not because their history is already written in stone. According to the story, six of the seven eras were divided amongst themselves.

One of your mistakes here is in believing that the aforementioned era has ended.

It doesn't matter about any past antecedents. The issue is where is this fictional true church right now? Fact of the matter is no one knows. No living person can even prove whether there's a "true" church. Folks are just guessing.
How many times do I have to say this before it sinks in?

I have already told you where the Church is. It cannot be any where else.

Then which of the 31,000 or so doctrines is the right one? No one knows if their doctrinal interpretation is accurate, so your theory is just that....a theory, a hypothesis, A GUESS. In short, you don't know.

The text has been set for nearly 2000 years. It is the plumbline. Lay what you believe against it and you know right away whether your doctrine is accurate.

I gave you a canon above. There are not 31,000 doctrines or canons. 31,000 organizations? I have no problem conceiving of that.

 

[JayRob]

Your ignorance is SCREAMING at us all.

Seems like it's yours. Who was the testator that died in order to make the Old Testament valid? Do you know?

He didn't.

Well, who inspired the Nicean council to adopt the New Testament the way it is now if it wasn't the Jesus character?

Maybe this will help you. I will give you the abbreviated version.

Posting canons and doctrines is not evidence. They're only opinions of what they THINK is the truth.

One of your mistakes here is in believing that the aforementioned era has ended.

According to the book of Revelation, by the time of the supposed second coming, only part of one era will still be in existence. The remnant of the Philadelphian era will be all that's left according to the story in Revelation.

I have already told you where the Church is. It cannot be any where else.

You have no idea where that church is. You can only speculate and theorize where it is.

The text has been set for nearly 2000 years. It is the plumbline. Lay what you believe against it and you know right away whether your doctrine is accurate.

Millions have been doing this for years, and there's still massive division within the Christian religion. Folks can lay all the plumbline they want to, still they won't know and can't prove that their doctrines are accurate. Folks are only guessing just like you are.

I gave you a canon above. There are not 31,000 doctrines or canons. 31,000 organizations? I have no problem conceiving of that.

Again I repeat, no one knows if their canon, doctrines or denomination has the "real" truth. All they're doing is guessing that they're right. It's just that simple.
Until the biblical sky god comes down IN PERSON and tells the people that they're on the right track, everyone's only guessing, theorizing and hypothesizing. That's it in a nutshell.

 

[dacontinent]

Seems like it's yours. Who was the testator that died in order to make the Old Testament valid? Do you know?

This is a new addition to my epitaph. Please don't write any more on what you know of the Bible. Please do not insult the readers of the Prayer Board any more.

Well, who inspired the Nicean council to adopt the New Testament the way it is now if it wasn't the Jesus character?

The members of the Nicean Council addressed that. What did they claim? Have you bothered to read what they claimed?

Posting canons and doctrines is not evidence. They're only opinions of what they THINK is the truth.

I spoke to the accuracy of the doctrines by presenting them to you. You have every right to challenge their soundness against the plumbline of the Word of God. Are you willing? Are you able?

According to the book of Revelation, by the time of the supposed second coming, only part of one era will still be in existence. The remnant of the Philadelphian era will be all that's left according to the story in Revelation.

Even if you believe that is true, it's moot since we haven't reached that point. The seven churches are alive and well, preaching the gospel, winning souls to Christ, and sharing the good news. We have the evidence.

You have no idea where that church is. You can only speculate and theorize where it is.

The Church is where the Bible says it is. If you choose to differ with that, then that is on you. However, since that is where the concept is defined, that would not be a very good position for you to take. Still, you don't believe the Bible, so it doesn't matter to you at all. You can reach your own conclusion and be self-validating.

Millions have been doing this for years, and there's still massive division within the Christian religion. Folks can lay all the plumbline they want to, still they won't know and can't prove that their doctrines are accurate. Folks are only guessing just like you are.

There is not need to guess. Just line it up and let the EVIDENCE speak for itself: straight or off the mark.

Again I repeat, no one knows if their canon, doctrines or denomination has the "real" truth. All they're doing is guessing that they're right. It's just that simple.
Until the biblical sky god comes down IN PERSON and tells the people that they're on the right track, everyone's only guessing, theorizing and hypothesizing. That's it in a nutshell.

He did that, He does that, and He also tell us when we are off. Did you hear Him? Answer: no.

 

[JayRob]

This is a new addition to my epitaph. Please don't write any more on what you know of the Bible. Please do not insult the readers of the Prayer Board any more.

Where's this coming from? It was you who claimed that a testator had to die in order to make a testament valid. You stated or hinted that the Jesus figure died to make valid the New Testament.
I'm simply asking you the question, who died to make the Old Testament valid? The Old Testament was in existence long before the Jesus figure is said to have died, so he COULDN'T have been the testator.
If your theory about the testator as having to die is accurate, who died in order to make the Old Testament valid?

The members of the Nicean Council addressed that. What did they claim? Have you bothered to read what they claimed?

Members of the Nicean council were mixed with pagan leaders. Are you saying that pagan leaders were inspired by the biblical god to mix their doctrines with his "holy" doctrines?

I spoke to the accuracy of the doctrines by presenting them to you. You have every right to challenge their soundness against the plumbline of the Word of God. Are you willing? Are you able?

That's all you did was speak. Whose to say that those doctrines you posted are the exact truth?
Mormons believe they have the truth. Whose to say they are wrong? Jehovah's Witnesses believe they have the truth. They can present doctrines as well, but who knows whether their doctrines are anymore accurate than yours? Who on this earth can do that?

The Church is where the Bible says it is. If you choose to differ with that, then that is on you. However, since that is where the concept is defined, that would not be a very good position for you to take. Still, you don't believe the Bible, so it doesn't matter to you at all. You can reach your own conclusion and be self-validating.

The bible says a lot of things, but it's quite often very wrong and very fictional. If there is this one true church, then where is it located?
I've given you every chance to present irrefutable evidence to this question and each time, you've come up short.
That speaks volumes.

There is not need to guess. Just line it up and let the EVIDENCE speak for itself: straight or off the mark.

So I'm supposed to try and prove the accuracy of a fictional book that's been copied and added to by different men over the past two thousand years? I'll leave that to you. So far you've not had any success, but that's understandable.

He did that, He does that, and He also tell us when we are off. .

If he did do it the first time, then he did a poor job of getting his message across because today, there are still thousands and thousands of folks who claim he said one thing while thousands of others claim he said another totally different thing.
In others words, there's massive confusion within the group supposedly led by the god who claims to not be the author of confusion.

Did you hear Him? Answer: no

There you go again with this imaginary voice in your head.
Dacon, are you sure beyond a shadow of a doubt that those thoughts you're hearing in your head aren't your thoughts and not the thoughts of an invisible sky god?

 

[dacontinent]

Where's this coming from? It was you who claimed that a testator had to die in order to make a testament valid. You stated or hinted that the Jesus figure died to make valid the New Testament.
I'm simply asking you the question, who died to make the Old Testament valid? The Old Testament was in existence long before the Jesus figure is said to have died, so he COULDN'T have been the testator.
If your theory about the testator as having to die is accurate, who died in order to make the Old Testament valid?

It comes from the simple fact that you asked the question.

Members of the Nicean council were mixed with pagan leaders. Are you saying that pagan leaders were inspired by the biblical god to mix their doctrines with his "holy" doctrines?

No. I simply asked if you read what the Nicean Council said about its inspiration. Still waiting for your answer.

That's all you did was speak. Whose to say that those doctrines you posted are the exact truth?
Mormons believe they have the truth. Whose to say they are wrong? Jehovah's Witnesses believe they have the truth. They can present doctrines as well, but who knows whether their doctrines are anymore accurate than yours? Who on this earth can do that?

The Word of God says whether those doctrines posted are the exact truth. You do understand what doctrine is ... or do you?

The bible says a lot of things, but it's quite often very wrong and very fictional. If there is this one true church, then where is it located?
I've given you every chance to present irrefutable evidence to this question and each time, you've come up short.
That speaks volumes.

I have given you the ONLY answer there is multiple times. You seem to be the one coming up short.

So I'm supposed to try and prove the accuracy of a fictional book that's been copied and added to by different men over the past two thousand years? I'll leave that to you. So far you've not had any success, but that's understandable.

No, sir. That is not the task. The task is to evaluate the doctrines.

There you go again with this imaginary voice in your head.
Dacon, are you sure beyond a shadow of a doubt that those thoughts you're hearing in your head aren't your thoughts and not the thoughts of an invisible sky god?

You are the only one mentioning hearing voices in one's head.

 

[JayRob]

It comes from the simple fact that you asked the question.

For a person who dares to use a quote for his signature, you don't have an answer to that quote.
I'll ask again. "Who in the Old Testament died as it's testator in order to make it valid?
You already claimed that the Jesus character died in order to validate the New Testament, but who died on behalf of the Old Testament?

No. I simply asked if you read what the Nicean Council said about its inspiration. Still waiting for your answer.

I asked you who inspired the members of the Nicean council and you said it was the Jesus character. Now you're changing your tune. I don't think you even know.

The Word of God says whether those doctrines posted are the exact truth. You do understand what doctrine is ... or do you?

The bible claims a lot of things as being true, however when one dares to investigate it's content, content such as the sun stopping in midstream and content like evil spirits as causing diseases and things like the sun revolving around the earth, it's quite obvious and quite easy to prove that not all of it's content is accurate, not by a longshot.

Your churches doctrines are no more proven to have been inspired by a biblical god than those statements I just mentioned. They're written by fallible men who wanted nothing more than power on this physical earth to rule over others.

I

have given you the ONLY answer there is multiple times. You seem to be the one coming up short.

You've given answers, but where's the evidence? Simply making empty claims is not evidence. Thousands of other denominations make similar claims, but no evidence.
No evidence equates to mere faith.

No, sir. That is not the task. The task is to evaluate the doctrines.

Anyone can evaluate a doctrine, but it takes someone with irrefutable evidence to verify that the doctrines were inspired by a god. Not one person has done this.

You are the only one mentioning hearing voices in one's head.

You asked if I heard "him". How are you hearing him? If you're hearing him through the words of the bible, did he really tell you that evil spirits are the cause of diseases and not microscopic organisms like bacteria? If he speaks to you through the bible, who told you that evil spirits cause diseases?
On the other hand, if you're supposedly hearing him in your head, how can you prove that it's "him" speaking to you? That's it, you can't. You can only claim that he is.
That's the difference between faith and evidence. Evidence is provable, faith is only back up by what you can only give, which are mere claims.

 

[dacontinent]

For a person who dares to use a quote for his signature, you don't have an answer to that quote.
I'll ask again. "Who in the Old Testament died as it's testator in order to make it valid?
You already claimed that the Jesus character died in order to validate the New Testament, but who died on behalf of the Old Testament?

The sad part is that you claim to understand the Bible and have so much contempt for it, but you don't have an answer for that quote.

I asked you who inspired the members of the Nicean council and you said it was the Jesus character. Now you're changing your tune. I don't think you even know.

I haven't changed anything. I simply asked you if you read what the Nicean Council had to say about its inspiration...and I am still waiting for you to answer the question.

The bible claims a lot of things as being true, however when one dares to investigate it's content, content such as the sun stopping in midstream and content like evil spirits as causing diseases and things like the sun revolving around the earth, it's quite obvious and quite easy to prove that not all of it's content is accurate, not by a longshot.

Your churches doctrines are no more proven to have been inspired by a biblical god than those statements I just mentioned. They're written by fallible men who wanted nothing more than power on this physical earth to rule over others.

Where is your evidence that the men (and women) who wrote these doctrines want "power on this physical earth to rule over others"? Where is your EVIDENCE of such a claim?

You've given answers, but where's the evidence? Simply making empty claims is not evidence. Thousands of other denominations make similar claims, but no evidence.
No evidence equates to mere faith.

I have given the answers set forth in the definition. You refute that. I guess that makes you smarter than He who defined what He established.

Mere faith?? What is MERE faith?

Anyone can evaluate a doctrine, but it takes someone with irrefutable evidence to verify that the doctrines were inspired by a god. Not one person has done this.

Nah. In order to evaluate a doctrine requires an intimate knowledge of the subject. You have refused to claim any such intimacy ... thus far.

You asked if I heard "him". How are you hearing him? If you're hearing him through the words of the bible, did he really tell you that evil spirits are the cause of diseases and not microscopic organisms like bacteria? If he speaks to you through the bible, who told you that evil spirits cause diseases?
On the other hand, if you're supposedly hearing him in your head, how can you prove that it's "him" speaking to you? That's it, you can't. You can only claim that he is.
That's the difference between faith and evidence. Evidence is provable, faith is only back up by what you can only give, which are mere claims.

I hear Him through what He has already said and through what He is saying now. I can prove that it's Him speaking to me by Him being absolutely consistent with what He has said before.

I never said that microscopic organisms like bacteria don't cause disease. You must have misunderstood. :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

 

[JayRob]

The sad part is that you claim to understand the Bible and have so much contempt for it, but you don't have an answer for that quote.

I have contempt because it's author makes claims it can't support. You made the claim that in order for there to be a testament, a testator had to die. We know about the New Testament, but who died to make the Old Testament valid?
I've asked you this several times now. It's obvious you don't know, but are too proud to admit that you don't.

I haven't changed anything. I simply asked you if you read what the Nicean Council had to say about its inspiration...and I am still waiting for you to answer the question.

I don't have to read anything about what the Nicean council said about inspiration because I not the one claiming that the council was inspired by the Jesus character. YOU made that claim.
I simply want to know how the Jesus character inspired pagan leaders to mix his supposed "holy" doctrines with their pagan doctrines and call it Christian. You've yet to explain this.

Where is your evidence that the men (and women) who wrote these doctrines want "power on this physical earth to rule over others"? Where is your EVIDENCE of such a claim?

The bible is my evidence. They've coerced folks into believing that they must follow these doctrines IF they want to avoid hell fire.
Nevermind the fact that there's no evidence of any hell fire, and these men can't prove that there is one, yet they go on preaching and scaring folks into giving tithes, offerings and praise to the very charlatans and sheisters deceiving them.
These innocent and naive folks not only give these men their money, they give them their allegiance as well, with nothing to show for in the end.
I think you know exactly what I'm talking about. If you don't, you should.

I have given the answers set forth in the definition. You refute that. I guess that makes you smarter than He who defined what He established.

Where is this true church located? You've not given a shred of proof that this church even exists, only empty claims.

Mere faith?? What is MERE faith?

That's what you're living by because I keep asking for evidence, but you can't present any. That's what "faith" is, beliefs devoid of evidence.

Nah. In order to evaluate a doctrine requires an intimate knowledge of the subject. You have refused to claim any such intimacy ... thus far.

Just claiming to have knowledge isn't the entire equation. Showing evidence pertaining to this intimate knowledge you speak of will shut down my argument. Until you can present irrefutable evidence verifying that the bible is truly the word of a biblical god, you have no case.
As its says in Isaiah, "present your case". As Paul says, "prove ALL things". On both fronts, I already KNOW that you can't.

I hear Him through what He has already said and through what He is saying now. I can prove that it's Him speaking to me by Him being absolutely consistent with what He has said before.

You hear him through what he has already said from the bible?! He claimed in Joshua that the sun stopped. He claimed in the Old Testament that evil spirits cause diseases. He claimed that the sun revolves around the earth.
If he's speaking to you through those verses from the Old Testament, he's been lying to you.

I never said that microscopic organisms like bacteria don't cause disease. You must have misunderstood.

I didn't say that you claimed that microscopic organisms such as bacteria don't cause diseases. I said that the biblical god made such a claim.
I guess you need to be laughing at him for making such unfounded and bogused claims. LOL!!
Note: Don't laugh too hard or you might suffer a tragic death like some of the Old Testament Israelites. LOL!!

 

[dacontinent]

I have contempt because it's author makes claims it can't support. You made the claim that in order for there to be a testament, a testator had to die. We know about the New Testament, but who died to make the Old Testament valid?
I've asked you this several times now. It's obvious you don't know, but are too proud to admit that you don't.

And you still don't know.

I don't have to read anything about what the Nicean council said about inspiration because I not the one claiming that the council was inspired by the Jesus character. YOU made that claim.
I simply want to know how the Jesus character inspired pagan leaders to mix his supposed "holy" doctrines with their pagan doctrines and call it Christian. You've yet to explain this.

And you don't know this either. Wow! I figured it was just a matter of time before you would expose your ignorance in such a graphic manner.

God has inspired pagan leaders like the Pharoah of Egypt, Sanballat, Agag, Darius, Cyrus, Xerxes, Nebuchadnezzar, Caesar Augustus and plenty more to do things that were a blessing to His people and the cause of righteousness. To quote RB, "It's all in the book."

The bible is my evidence. They've coerced folks into believing that they must follow these doctrines IF they want to avoid hell fire.
Nevermind the fact that there's no evidence of any hell fire, and these men can't prove that there is one, yet they go on preaching and scaring folks into giving tithes, offerings and praise to the very charlatans and sheisters deceiving them.
These innocent and naive folks not only give these men their money, they give them their allegiance as well, with nothing to show for in the end.
I think you know exactly what I'm talking about. If you don't, you should.

There is nothing in those doctrines about tithes, offerings, or praising men. Are you off your meds? And who are they? Pronouns without antecedents are hard to follow. You say your evidence is the Bible but then you switch to they in human reference.

Where is this true church located? You've not given a shred of proof that this church even exists, only empty claims.

If you can't or won't read, then I cannot help you. Wait. You are not attempting to be helped. That probably explains it.

That's what you're living by because I keep asking for evidence, but you can't present any. That's what "faith" is, beliefs devoid of evidence.

Ibid.

Just claiming to have knowledge isn't the entire equation. Showing evidence pertaining to this intimate knowledge you speak of will shut down my argument. Until you can present irrefutable evidence verifying that the bible is truly the word of a biblical god, you have no case.
As its says in Isaiah, "present your case". As Paul says, "prove ALL things". On both fronts, I already KNOW that you can't.

I present to you ... JAYROB ... void of intimacy with God by His own choice. The evidence is irrefutable.

You hear him through what he has already said from the bible?! He claimed in Joshua that the sun stopped. He claimed in the Old Testament that evil spirits cause diseases. He claimed that the sun revolves around the earth.
If he's speaking to you through those verses from the Old Testament, he's been lying to you.

Where is your EVIDENCE in support of your accusations?

I didn't say that you claimed that microscopic organisms such as bacteria don't cause diseases. I said that the biblical god made such a claim.
I guess you need to be laughing at him for making such unfounded and bogused claims. LOL!!
Note: Don't laugh too hard or you might suffer a tragic death like some of the Old Testament Israelites. LOL!!

Where does God through the bible claim that microscopic organisms such as bacteria don't cause diseases? I have NEVER read that in the Bible anywhere. I was trying to make a bit of a joke earlier, but this time I am serious: Are you supposed to be on some meds and have not been taking them?

 

[JayRob]

And you still don't know.

It's not for me to know. You made the claim, so the ball is in your court. Who was the testator to die in order to make the OT valid?

And you don't know this either. Wow! I figured it was just a matter of time before you would expose your ignorance in such a graphic manner.
God has inspired pagan leaders like the Pharoah of Egypt, Sanballat, Agag, Darius, Cyrus, Xerxes, Nebuchadnezzar, Caesar Augustus and plenty more to do things that were a blessing to His people and the cause of righteousness. To quote RB, "It's all in the book."

When did the biblical god inspire ANY of the men you mentioned, to write down what was in the bible? Not one time has it been shown that he inspired these men to write down in a "holy" book words inspired to them by him.
It's obvious that you're digging another hole for yourself. That must be the thousandth hole you've dug for yourself. Why must you keep embarassing yourself like this?
You mean to tell me that the biblical Jesus inspired totally pagan folks to mix in THEIR "satanic" doctrines with his "holy" doctrines?! LOL!!
If I was a regular Christian, I'd be highly pissed off at this theory of yours, but since I'm not, I'll just laugh at it.

There is nothing in those doctrines about tithes, offerings, or praising men. Are you off your meds? And who are they? Pronouns without antecedents are hard to follow. You say your evidence is the Bible but then you switch to they in human reference.

In case you didn't know, I was speaking in general terms. Didn't think I'd have to break it down to you like that, but that's no problem.
In a nutshell, every doctrine gathered from Protestant churches are derived from the Catholic church.
Just as with the Catholic church, men who claim to be sincere, sincerely want nothing but to rule over others by claiming to tell them what god has told them.
That's total hogwash. It's their own mind telling them, yet folks go on believing these charlatans and giving them money.
The ONLY power these men claim is in the here and now.
If they REALLY believed in an everlasting hell fire, why else would these men not care about stealing from poor people and why else would they not care about raping little boys? That's it, they know that their religion is a fraud as are they.

If you can't or won't read, then I cannot help you. Wait. You are not attempting to be helped. That probably explains it.

It never fails. Anytime you answer a question like this, it simply means you don't know, but are too proud to say it. I already knew this, but just thought I'd ask any way. You have no idea were this supposed true church is located anymore than I do.

Ibid.

Ibid. from the above post. You can't prove the existence of any biblical god beyond a shadow of a doubt anymore than I can. You only have faith to stand on, but seems to me you're too afraid to admit such. It won't hurt to make such an admission.
You'd make it a lot easier on yourself if you'd fly under your true flag, which is called faith. You're living by faith, not by evidence.
Your own bible is bold enough to admit this but for some odd reason, you refuse to do so. Why is that?
2Corinthians 5:7. For it is by faith that we walk and not by sight.
Dacon, please fly under your true flag and cease trying to mix faith with evidence.

I present to you ... JAYROB ... void of intimacy with God by His own choice. The evidence is irrefutable.

Why are you so good at making me right? I knew you wouldn't nor could you present a valid case, even after being COMMANDED to do so by Isaiah and Paul. LOL!!

Where is your EVIDENCE in support of your accusations?

Your own words are evidence enough. You claimed that the biblical god speaks to you through the bible? Well, let me ask you this.
Whenever you read in the Old Testament the story where it's claimed that the sun stopped, does this biblical god really tell you this? Does he REALLY tell you in other parts of the bible that evil spirits are the cause of diseases? If so, do you believe him? Yes or no?
Do you believe the sun stopped in midstream? Yes or no? Do you believe that evil spirits are the cause of diseases? Yes or no?

Where does God through the bible claim that microscopic organisms such as bacteria don't cause diseases? I have NEVER read that in the Bible anywhere. I was trying to make a bit of a joke earlier, but this time I am serious: Are you supposed to be on some meds and have not been taking them?

The biblical god claims that EVIL SPIRITS are the cause of diseases. He never claimed that bacteria and viruses as being the cause. As a matter of fact, the most dangerous creatures on earth, being bacteria and viruses, aren't mentioned ONE time in ALL the bible. Why is this?
It's because ignorant men back then had NO knowledge, had NO idea that such organisms existed. Why didn't their god tell them?
If they did, then it would never have been written that EVIL SPIRITS CAUSE DISEASES.

THIS is why the bible is clearly a book written by MEN, and not inspired by an ALL-KNOWING god. An all-knowing god would never have allowed such a lie to have been written in his name and on his behalf.
I find it laughable that some still claim these lies to be true, inspite of the overwhelming evidence we have today.

So Dacon, if you believe that evil spirits can cause diseases, perhaps it's YOU who are on meds. If you don't believe such, you're basically calling your god a liar.

 

[dacontinent]

It's not for me to know. You made the claim, so the ball is in your court. Who was the testator to die in order to make the OT valid?

Not for you to know? If what is for you to know is the basis for discussion, then all of your posts in this forum are invalid.

Since you don't know, the ball IS in my court. Thanks.

When did the biblical god inspire ANY of the men you mentioned, to write down what was in the bible? Not one time has it been shown that he inspired these men to write down in a "holy" book words inspired to them by him.
It's obvious that you're digging another hole for yourself. That must be the thousandth hole you've dug for yourself. Why must you keep embarassing yourself like this?
You mean to tell me that the biblical Jesus inspired totally pagan folks to mix in THEIR "satanic" doctrines with his "holy" doctrines?! LOL!!
If I was a regular Christian, I'd be highly pissed off at this theory of yours, but since I'm not, I'll just laugh at it.

I don't mean to tell you that at all. None of those men mention contributed even one stroke of a pen to the Bible. However, all of them were inspired by the God of the Bible to contribute something to the will of God as expressed in the Bible. My point is simply that God can and does inspire people of all sorts to accomplish His will.

Since you aren't a Christian of any sort, your laughter is merely a reflection of your ignorance.

In case you didn't know, I was speaking in general terms. Didn't think I'd have to break it down to you like that, but that's no problem.
In a nutshell, every doctrine gathered from Protestant churches are derived from the Catholic church.

Tell me you mistyped that and that you didn't mean what you wrote.

Just as with the Catholic church, men who claim to be sincere, sincerely want nothing but to rule over others by claiming to tell them what god has told them.
That's total hogwash. It's their own mind telling them, yet folks go on believing these charlatans and giving them money.
The ONLY power these men claim is in the here and now.

EVIDENCE??

It never fails. Anytime you answer a question like this, it simply means you don't know, but are too proud to say it. I already knew this, but just thought I'd ask any way. You have no idea were this supposed true church is located anymore than I do.

:read: 1 Co 1:2; Eph 5:23-24; 1 Th 1:1; 2 Th 1:1 :lmao: :lmao: :lmao:

Ibid. from the above post. You can't prove the existence of any biblical god beyond a shadow of a doubt anymore than I can. You only have faith to stand on, but seems to me you're too afraid to admit such. It won't hurt to make such an admission.
You'd make it a lot easier on yourself if you'd fly under your true flag, which is called faith. You're living by faith, not by evidence.
Your own bible is bold enough to admit this but for some odd reason, you refuse to do so. Why is that?
2Corinthians 5:7. For it is by faith that we walk and not by sight.
Dacon, please fly under your true flag and cease trying to mix faith with evidence.

Love my flag. The Bible already mixed faith and evidence.
Heb 11:1
Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.
KJV

Why are you so good at making me right? I knew you wouldn't nor could you present a valid case, even after being COMMANDED to do so by Isaiah and Paul. LOL!!

My evidence continues to speak (write) for me. Oh...and check your references on Isaiah and Paul. Your slip is showing again.

Your own words are evidence enough. You claimed that the biblical god speaks to you through the bible? Well, let me ask you this.
Whenever you read in the Old Testament the story where it's claimed that the sun stopped, does this biblical god really tell you this? Does he REALLY tell you in other parts of the bible that evil spirits are the cause of diseases? If so, do you believe him? Yes or no?
Do you believe the sun stopped in midstream? Yes or no? Do you believe that evil spirits are the cause of diseases? Yes or no?

1. Yes.
2. Still waiting for your evidence that the Bible says that microscopic organisms like bacteria don't cause disease.
3. Yes.
4. Yes.

The biblical god claims that EVIL SPIRITS are the cause of diseases. He never claimed that bacteria and viruses as being the cause. As a matter of fact, the most dangerous creatures on earth, being bacteria and viruses, aren't mentioned ONE time in ALL the bible. Why is this?
It's because ignorant men back then had NO knowledge, had NO idea that such organisms existed. Why didn't their god tell them?
If they did, then it would never have been written that EVIL SPIRITS CAUSE DISEASES.

THIS is why the bible is clearly a book written by MEN, and not inspired by an ALL-KNOWING god. An all-knowing god would never have allowed such a lie to have been written in his name and on his behalf.
I find it laughable that some still claim these lies to be true, inspite of the overwhelming evidence we have today.

So Dacon, if you believe that evil spirits can cause diseases, perhaps it's YOU who are on meds. If you don't believe such, you're basically calling your god a liar.

Their solution is.
Ibid.
We have been over this plenty of times before.

 

[JayRob]

Not for you to know? If what is for you to know is the basis for discussion, then all of your posts in this forum are invalid.
Since you don't know, the ball IS in my court. Thanks.

More dodging the question. Just admit that you're ignorant of the question and move on.

I don't mean to tell you that at all. None of those men mention contributed even one stroke of a pen to the Bible. However, all of them were inspired by the God of the Bible to contribute something to the will of God as expressed in the Bible. My point is simply that God can and does inspire people of all sorts to accomplish His will.

You don't know WHO contributed to the bible. You, like others are only guessing.

As far as members of the Nicean council are concerned, you don't know what they contributed in writing. The bible has been copied over and over by different men and groups with differing agendas hundreds of years.
Even if these pagan members weren't responsible for writings in the bible (and we don't know this), they were responsible for deciding WHICH books would be allowed in the New Testament, meaning that they had tremendous influence on what millions read and call scripture today.
They were pagan, yet still inspired to know which books to allow and not allow in the bible?! Yeah, right. LOL!!

Since you aren't a Christian of any sort, your laughter is merely a reflection of your ignorance.

My laughter is a reflection of how ignorant your theory is.
You claimed that your god inspired pagan-minded men to decide which of his "holy" books were to be allowed in his holy word. That's beyond laughable.
In order to prove your theory to be correct, you don't seem to mind throwing the biblical Jesus under the bus by claiming that he uses pagan-minded men to decide what parts of his word is holy. Simply unbelievable, but that's fine with me. I doubt if it's fine with other Christians reading that.

Tell me you mistyped that and that you didn't mean what you wrote.

The apple doesn't fall far from the tree. Catholicism and Protestanism are two peas of the same pod.
Protestants left the Catholic church in protest but not before taking with them their doctrines.

EVIDENCE??

One need only look at the words, actions and history of many within the Christian church, starting with the Catholic church.

1 Co 1:2; Eph 5:23-24; 1 Th 1:1; 2 Th 1:1

--So the one true church is located in Corinth? But Dacon, you live here in the U.S.. I guess by default, you're not part of this "true" church then. Hahahahaha.
--Anybody can claim to be a head of a church, but how can you prove that the Jesus character is when you've never seen, felt, heard or touched him? That's it, you can't. It's all imaginary. How many times must this be said?
--Oh, now it's in Thessolinica? Make up your mind. If it' in Thessolinica, then you're not a part of it, neither are those who aren't living there.
Let's see, again by default, you just eliminated several million supposed Christians as not being part of the true church based on your theory.

Love my flag. The Bible already mixed faith and evidence.
Heb 11:1 Now faith is the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen.

Uhhh Dacon, the bible merely "claims" that there's evidence, evidence by the way that's NOT SEEN. That's an oxymoron if I ever heard one. LOL!!
Faith is something that's NOT SEEN, evidence is something that's SEEN. Evidence is the complete opposite of faith.
If the evidence is there, one should be able to see it. Paul says that it's not seen.
Besides, if there's all this so-called evidence, what's the need for faith? LOL.

My evidence continues to speak (write) for me. Oh...and check your references on Isaiah and Paul. Your slip is showing again.

Your posts are nowhere near to being evident of anyone speaking to you. Your writings are mere claims and wishful thinking that what you're thinking in your head is what's actually influencing your actions. In short, you're merely listening to your own thoughts like everybody else.

If you believe that evil spirits are the cause of diseases, that alone is proof enough to KNOW that an all-knowing god isn't talking to you. If you believe the sun stopped, that's also proof enough to let me know that you're naive and gullible enough to believe ANYTHING.

[*]Yes.

So you believe the sun stopped? FINALLY, I got a Christian to answer the question. Folks, we have someone who actually BELIEVE THE SUN STOPPED IN MIDSTREAM!!! WOW AND UNBELIEVABLE!!!

[*]Still waiting for your evidence that the Bible says that microscopic organisms like bacteria don't cause disease.

You'll wait until the cows come home then. How can ignorant, nomadic tribesmen mention anything about microscopic organisms and bacteria when they didn't have the slightest idea that they WERE IN EXISTENCE AT THAT TIME? That's impossible.

They were under the impression though, that evil spirits caused diseases. Here's why:

-And certain women, which had been healed of evil spirits and infirmities, Mary called Magdalene, out of whom went seven devils, Luke 8:2
-And in that same hour he cured many of their infirmities and plagues, and of evil spirits; and unto many that were blind he gave sight. Luke 7:21
-Instantly, an angel of the Lord struck Herod with a sickness, because he accepted the people's worship instead of giving the glory to God. So he was consumed with worms and died. Acts 12:23

This is some of the superstition that was being spread around by ignorant and backwards people back then who had NO knowledge of the causes of diseases. There are more places in the bible claiming that spirits cause diseases. This is what they believed back then.

With modern science today, we KNOW better.....or at least we SHOULD know that spirits don't cause diseases. They still believe evil spirits cause diseases in uneducated parts of the world, but there's no excuse for folks in the U.S. to believe such nonsense.

[*]Yes.

Where's your extrabiblical and historical evidence proving the sun stopped? You keep making yourself look ignorant, eventhough you're an educated person.
Why is this? This is so sad. I hope you don't teach children in your church this nonsense.
By the way, the sun doesn't even move in a 24 hour period and it certainly doesn't revolve around the earth. LOL!!

 

[dacontinent]

You don't know WHO contributed to the bible. You, like others are only guessing.

Since I was not an eyewitness, I don't know who contributed to the Bible. I with the exception of the book of Hebrews, I do know who the documented contributors were.

As far as members of the Nicean council are concerned, you don't know what they contributed in writing. The bible has been copied over and over by different men and groups with differing agendas hundreds of years.
Even if these pagan members weren't responsible for writings in the bible (and we don't know this), they were responsible for deciding WHICH books would be allowed in the New Testament, meaning that they had tremendous influence on what millions read and call scripture today.
They were pagan, yet still inspired to know which books to allow and not allow in the bible?! Yeah, right. LOL!!

We know what books were included by the Nicean Council. We know their reasoning for inclusion. We know that they have not changed since that time. We that all of the members of the Nicean Council - pagan or not - made the decisions on inclusion.

My laughter is a reflection of how ignorant your theory is.
You claimed that your god inspired pagan-minded men to decide which of his "holy" books were to be allowed in his holy word. That's beyond laughable.
In order to prove your theory to be correct, you don't seem to mind throwing the biblical Jesus under the bus by claiming that he uses pagan-minded men to decide what parts of his word is holy. Simply unbelievable, but that's fine with me. I doubt if it's fine with other Christians reading that.

You, sir, are in error. I did not make that claim. You claimed that there were pagans involved and speculated on their inspiration. I simply provided examples of pagans in scripture who were inspired by God to do things that were a blessing to God's people and advanced the Kingdom of God.

The apple doesn't fall far from the tree. Catholicism and Protestanism are two peas of the same pod.
Protestants left the Catholic church in protest but not before taking with them their doctrines.

Obviously you have not read Luther's 95 Theses, the crust of Protestantism.

One need only look at the words, actions and history of many within the Christian church, starting with the Catholic church.

Meaning you have no evidence; only your opinion.

--So the one true church is located in Corinth? But Dacon, you live here in the U.S.. I guess by default, you're not part of this "true" church then. Hahahahaha.
--Anybody can claim to be a head of a church, but how can you prove that the Jesus character is when you've never seen, felt, heard or touched him? That's it, you can't. It's all imaginary. How many times must this be said?
--Oh, now it's in Thessolinica? Make up your mind. If it' in Thessolinica, then you're not a part of it, neither are those who aren't living there.
Let's see, again by default, you just eliminated several million supposed Christians as not being part of the true church based on your theory.

Read my new thread.

Uhhh Dacon, the bible merely "claims" that there's evidence, evidence by the way that's NOT SEEN. That's an oxymoron if I ever heard one. LOL!!
Faith is something that's NOT SEEN, evidence is something that's SEEN. Evidence is the complete opposite of faith.
If the evidence is there, one should be able to see it. Paul says that it's not seen.
Besides, if there's all this so-called evidence, what's the need for faith? LOL.

Evidence is seen. It is the "things" that the evidence bears out that are not seen. You don't bother to read the text. You choose not to exercise faith so you have lost track of what it is.

Your posts are nowhere near to being evident of anyone speaking to you. Your writings are mere claims and wishful thinking that what you're thinking in your head is what's actually influencing your actions. In short, you're merely listening to your own thoughts like everybody else.

If you believe that evil spirits are the cause of diseases, that alone is proof enough to KNOW that an all-knowing god isn't talking to you. If you believe the sun stopped, that's also proof enough to let me know that you're naive and gullible enough to believe ANYTHING.

Well, I don't believe you, so ANYTHING has already been ruled out.

So you believe the sun stopped? FINALLY, I got a Christian to answer the question. Folks, we have someone who actually BELIEVE THE SUN STOPPED IN MIDSTREAM!!! WOW AND UNBELIEVABLE!!!

Since I have said this before in multiple threads, your FINALLY is completely misplaced and deceptive.

You'll wait until the cows come home then. How can ignorant, nomadic tribesmen mention anything about microscopic organisms and bacteria when they didn't have the slightest idea that they WERE IN EXISTENCE AT THAT TIME? That's impossible.

They were under the impression though, that evil spirits caused diseases. Here's why:

-And certain women, which had been healed of evil spirits and infirmities, Mary called Magdalene, out of whom went seven devils, Luke 8:2
-And in that same hour he cured many of their infirmities and plagues, and of evil spirits; and unto many that were blind he gave sight. Luke 7:21
-Instantly, an angel of the Lord struck Herod with a sickness, because he accepted the people's worship instead of giving the glory to God. So he was consumed with worms and died. Acts 12:23

This is some of the superstition that was being spread around by ignorant and backwards people back then who had NO knowledge of the causes of diseases. There are more places in the bible claiming that spirits cause diseases. This is what they believed back then.

With modern science today, we KNOW better.....or at least we SHOULD know that spirits don't cause diseases. They still believe evil spirits cause diseases in uneducated parts of the world, but there's no excuse for folks in the U.S. to believe such nonsense.

Please allow me to clue you in on this piece before I go: causing disease and transmitting disease are two different things.

Where's your extrabiblical and historical evidence proving the sun stopped? You keep making yourself look ignorant, eventhough you're an educated person.
Why is this? This is so sad. I hope you don't teach children in your church this nonsense.
By the way, the sun doesn't even move in a 24 hour period and it certainly doesn't revolve around the earth. LOL!!

Ask the astrophysicists who identified it. They are extrabiblical and so are their findings.

 

[JayRob]

Since I was not an eyewitness, I don't know who contributed to the Bible. I with the exception of the book of Hebrews, I do know who the documented contributors were.

Thanks for your honesty. You could've saved us from quite a few postings if you'd had admitted this in the first place. No one KNOWS FOR SURE who authored the bible.

We know what books were included by the Nicean Council. We know their reasoning for inclusion. We know that they have not changed since that time. We that all of the members of the Nicean Council - pagan or not - made the decisions on inclusion.

We know that many of them were pagan. For you to claim that the Jesus figure allowed his supposed holy writings to be compromised with pagan writings is a HUGE leap.

You, sir, are in error. I did not make that claim. You claimed that there were pagans involved and speculated on their inspiration. I simply provided examples of pagans in scripture who were inspired by God to do things that were a blessing to God's people and advanced the Kingdom of God.

How am I in error? You claimed earlier that the Jesus figure even inspired pagan members of the Nicean council to include pagan materials in the biblical writings.
As a non-Christian, it even surprised me that you'd admit to such.

Obviously you have not read Luther's 95 Theses, the crust of Protestantism.

Luther hated the Catholic church so much, yet he couldn't deny that Protestantism is derived from Catholicism.

Meaning you have no evidence; only your opinion.

My opinion is colored by the history of the Catholic church and it's Protestant children.

Read my new thread.

Your new thread says nothing except that you bow out of answering logical questions.
You claimed that the church was in Corinth, then you claimed it was in Thessolinica.
Even though you've been given multiple opportunities, neither you or anyone else can locate this so-called church.

Evidence is seen. It is the "things" that the evidence bears out that are not seen. You don't bother to read the text. You choose not to exercise faith so you have lost track of what it is.

Faith is abstract, so how can one see an abstract? If the Jesus character claims NOT TO CHANGE, why aren't people performing the same feats that he supposedly performed? This would go a LONG way in verifying his plausibility, however unfortunately, such miraculous feats such as raising up dead folks and making the blind see ARE NOWHERE TO BE FOUND IN OUR DAY AND TIME, except in hospitals and by the hand of medicine.

Faith is absence of evidence, but full of beliefs and a hope and non-guarantee that what one prays for will come to pass.

Well, I don't believe you, so ANYTHING has already been ruled out.

What do you mean that you don't believe me? You DON'T have to believe me, but do you believe science and astronomy when they claim that evil spirits don't cause diseases and that the sun doesn't revolve around the earth?
The bible claims both are correct, but science disputes both. In this particular case, you'd be highly foolish to believe the former. Which is it if you dare answer?

Since I have said this before in multiple threads, your FINALLY is completely misplaced and deceptive.

So inspite of scientific and astronomical evidence, you STILL believe that evil spirits are the primary cause of diseases? You STILL believe the sun revolves around the earth?! Surely you jest!!

Please allow me to clue you in on this piece before I go: causing disease and transmitting disease are two different things.

Keep resorting to semantics. So, evil spirits now TRANSMIT diseases?! Hahahahaha!!! All I ask is for you to prove your case.

Ask the astrophysicists who identified it. They are extrabiblical and so are their findings.

There you go again, demanding that I prove something you claimed. That's your job. Where is it shown that the sun revolves around the earth and that it actually stopped? Hahahahahah, please present your evidence and extrabiblical source(s).

 

[Justin]

Classic combing.