Interesting Notes On Grambling St. Football Program


southsuburbs said:
Why does it look like (on the outside looking in) that Southern was better prepared and handled the cuts better?

Basically what I'm thinking...and I'm trying not to...but it seems like Gram had issues prior to the cuts and...once the cuts hit, they couldn't hide anymore and now they are using the cuts as an excuse.

Other schools were hit...but Gram seems to be the worst.
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Grambling's leadership preferred to avoid the short term embarassment of declaring Financial Exigency. SU's leadership said "screw embarassment, we need to do this in order to survive." I am not sure if the U of Louisiana Board would have allowed Grambling to make that declaration, but it would have saved a lot of this heartache (but not all).
 



jag4life said:
I think they are planning to add a student athletics fee like most other SWAC schools. That will account for a couple million by itself. They received many donations.

I think a MAJOR part of GSU's problem was that the administration did not communicate to alums/students/fans about the budget cuts. Many folks who have made pledges since this incident said they had no idea the funding was cut.
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You are correct. As an Alumnus of Grambling, I didn't know that we were having these many financial issues. I knew the Athletic budget was was in the red but some some of the other issues that we are now hearing about is new to me and many other Gramblinities.
 
jag4life said:
Grambling's leadership preferred to avoid the short term embarassment of declaring Financial Exigency. SU's leadership said "screw embarassment, we need to do this in order to survive." I am not sure if the U of Louisiana Board would have allowed Grambling to make that declaration, but it would have saved a lot of this heartache (but not all).
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:tup:

Also, I realized that there was a big disconnect between Grambling and UL System when Doug sued and won the salary amount that Grambling's Administration verbally agree to, but wasn't approved by the UL System. More than likely, this would have never happen at Southern, since Southern operates its own system.
 
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southsuburbs said:
Why does it look like (on the outside looking in) that Southern was better prepared and handled the cuts better?

Basically what I'm thinking...and I'm trying not to...but it seems like Gram had issues prior to the cuts and...once the cuts hit, they couldn't hide anymore and now they are using the cuts as an excuse.

Other schools were hit...but Gram seems to be the worst.
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Grambling is entirely to top heavy, at one point the president had 5 assistants making a combine salary of upwards of 325K. we had and have more AVPs than Tech and ULM, and instead of cutting at the top, the adm. has decided to cut staff, people making 40 and 50k.
 
JAG89 said:
:tup:

Also, I realized that there was a big disconnect between Grambling and UL System when Doug sued and won the salary amount that Grambling's Administration verbally agree to, but wasn't approved by the UL System. More than likely, this would have never happen at Southern, since Southern operates its own system.
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I have to agree with the ULSystem on this tho, Dr. Pogue offered Doug a contract with a base salary of 225k and another 50k in bonuses. the UL System simply told Dr. Pogue, they wasn't gonna approve the contract because Grambling couldn't afford it because of budget cuts and Grambling, FCS, shouldn't be paying Doug more than ULM is paying Berry, FBS. ULM just bumped Berry's salary up to 215k this season. and instead of Dr. Pogue telling Doug his contract wasn't approved, doug founded out the following year in the mail with a letter telling him, he wouldn't get his bonus money because he wasn't under contract. if I was Doug, I would've sued too. Dr. Pogue isn't equipped to oversee a FCS Division 1 program
 
GramblingMan2009 said:
Grambling is entirely to top heavy, at one point the president had 5 assistants making a combine salary of upwards of 325K. we had and have more AVPs than Tech and ULM, and instead of cutting at the top, the adm. has decided to cut staff, people making 40 and 50k.
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To be fair... there are many more people making 40-50K than the 5 AVPs who average $65K. If you cut 2 AVPs you save 130K. Cut 10 faculty members and you save $400-500K.
 
GramblingMan2009 said:
I have to agree with the ULSystem on this tho, Dr. Pogue offered Doug a contract with a base salary of 225k and another 50k in bonuses. the UL System simply told Dr. Pogue, they wasn't gonna approve the contract because Grambling couldn't afford it because of budget cuts and Grambling, FCS, shouldn't be paying Doug more than ULM is paying Berry, FBS. ULM just bumped Berry's salary up to 215k this season. and instead of Dr. Pogue telling Doug his contract wasn't approved, doug founded out the following year in the mail with a letter telling him, he wouldn't get his bonus money because he wasn't under contract. if I was Doug, I would've sued too. Dr. Pogue isn't equipped to oversee a FCS Division 1 program
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Ole Kenn made it seem like it was Doug's fault.
 
GramblingMan2009 said:
I have to agree with the ULSystem on this tho, Dr. Pogue offered Doug a contract with a base salary of 225k and another 50k in bonuses. the UL System simply told Dr. Pogue, they wasn't gonna approve the contract because Grambling couldn't afford it because of budget cuts and Grambling, FCS, shouldn't be paying Doug more than ULM is paying Berry, FBS. ULM just bumped Berry's salary up to 215k this season. and instead of Dr. Pogue telling Doug his contract wasn't approved, doug founded out the following year in the mail with a letter telling him, he wouldn't get his bonus money because he wasn't under contract. if I was Doug, I would've sued too. Dr. Pogue isn't equipped to oversee a FCS Division 1 program
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Dr. Pogue should have made sure that Doug understood what the UL System was considering before he made any type of offer. If I was Dr. Pogue, I would have made sure Doug attended whatever UL System Board meeting that dealt with coaches salaries. I would not have been stuck in the middle of giving Doug what he wanted and trying to convince the UL System Board that he is worth that much. I would have left it up to Doug if he wanted to continue to coach at Grambling based on the maximum salary the UL System Board set for its coaches.
 
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JAG89 said:
Dr. Pogue should have made sure that Doug understood what the UL System was considering before he made any type of offer. If I was Dr. Pogue, I would have made sure Doug attended whatever UL System Board meeting that dealt with coaches salaries. I would not have been stuck in the middle of giving Doug what he wanted and trying to convince the UL System Board that he is worth that much. I would have left it up to Doug if he wanted to continue to coach at Grambling based on the maximum salary the UL System Board set for its coaches.
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I agree, but I also hate that GSU got caught up in the middle of this political storm. That dayum Jindal....
For me to be from Alabama, I still listen and watch what Jindal says very carefully.
 
JAG89 said:
That does seem too many for Grambling's campus. I assume Grambling's AVP's are similar to Southern's Vice Chancellor positions. Southern has 8 Vice Chancellor positions on Southern University Baton Rouge (SUBR) campus, which doesn't include SU Law, SU Ag, SU New Orleans, and SU Shreveport.

http://www.subr.edu/index.cfm/page/589/n/113

http://www.subr.edu/index.cfm/page/588/n/112
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Connie Walton Vice President $170,660
Leon Sanders Vice President $160,000
Mahmoud Lamadanie Assistant Vice President $122,245
Stacey Duhon Vice President $122,000
Ante Britten Assistant Vice President $102,912
Janet Guyden Vice President $101,422
Winfred Jones Assistant Vice President $95,638
Anthony Johnson Asst. Vice President $93,330
Nettie Daniels Assistant Vice President $91,670
Gloria George Assistant Vice President Unknown
Joann Brown Assistant Vice President Unknown
 



GramblingMan2009 said:
Connie Walton Vice President $170,660
Leon Sanders Vice President $160,000
Mahmoud Lamadanie Assistant Vice President $122,245
Stacey Duhon Vice President $122,000
Ante Britten Assistant Vice President $102,912
Janet Guyden Vice President $101,422
Winfred Jones Assistant Vice President $95,638
Anthony Johnson Asst. Vice President $93,330
Nettie Daniels Assistant Vice President $91,670
Gloria George Assistant Vice President Unknown
Joann Brown Assistant Vice President Unknown
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What are they Vice President over? Notice some of SU's Vice Chancellor positions have multiple roles, such as Associate Vice Chancellor and Dean of Honor's College. I believe if Grambling could consolidate some of those positions, they could reallocate at least a half million dollars to much needed programs.
 
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southsuburbs said:
Why does it look like (on the outside looking in) that Southern was better prepared and handled the cuts better?

Basically, what I'm thinking...and I'm trying not to...but it seems like Gram had issues prior to the cuts and...once the cuts hit, they couldn't hide anymore and now they are using the cuts as an excuse.

Other schools were hit...but Gram seems to be the worst.
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JAG89 said:
That's because Southern operates its own system with less constraints. Grambling's Administration is stuck between the UL System and its alumni base. Both have a different vision on how the university should be managed. Now that issues have become public, I'm sure the UL System will work with Grambling's Administration and Grambling's alumni to make sure situations doesn't get as bad as it did.
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jag4life said:
Grambling's leadership preferred to avoid the short term embarassment of declaring Financial Exigency. SU's leadership said "screw embarassment, we need to do this in order to survive." I am not sure if the U of Louisiana Board would have allowed Grambling to make that declaration, but it would have saved a lot of this heartache (but not all).
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No disrespect or smack toward either school. I know Gov. Piyush Jindal has hit the Louisiana schools really hard, but our schools are always the ones that seem to get hit hardest and I hate seeing us have to struggle, especially after years and years and years of having to do it.

I will say this; it boils down to the administration at each school, along with the immediate response/action taken by each University. Dr. Llorens was announced as the chancellor at SU in May 2011; in July 2011 the bduget cuts at SU were also announced, along with the possibility of layoffs because of these cuts. Even though Dr. Llorens was only about 2 months into his chancellorship, he took swift action in immediately enforcing Southern's extingency plan, and the school sent out an SOS (Save Our Southern). In an effort to try & prevent layoffs, the University announced that classes would be held Monday through Thursday, and Friday would be used for academic counseling and advising. Further, certain faculty and staff were split (Team Blue and Team Gold), working in furloughs (one team would work full time one Friday, the other the next Friday). Dr. Llorens also made cuts to academic programs with low matriculation (Master of Arts in Communications and Physical Education). The students also joined in the effort; they held an emergency vote to increase student activity fees to help support the band & other areas that hit their school budget. Because of the quickness in implementing the extingency plan, it's safe to say that Southern probably created this plan years ago and had it ready to use.

But even though Piyush Jindal hit the school hard, Dr. Llorens still had Southern going strong. They received a $1 million donation from an alumni couple, they held a radiothon (yes, put the word out about what Jindal is doing and send in money), 3 new doctorate programs in Nursing were added, along with on-line Nursing programs; the University built a brand new intramural sports complex (which opened just last month), a brand new financial aid building was constructed, and a new addition on the Arts building was constructed. Enrollment may have dropped for Southern, but this past fall, it went back up with about 825-850 incoming freshmen. Also, I think Southern is about to start construction on new student residential facilities (I think it's for the students).

The news of the budget cuts & how they would affect both schools were made public. Both schools were hit hard. I don't know what all Grambling plans to do to survive this (and Lord knows I hope they do). I could be wrong, and I hope I am, but instead on going on and on to the media about what's already taken place, Dr. Pogue and Grambling really should be implementing and emphasizing an extingency plan (if they have one) for GSU. He's spending too much time complaining about the budget cuts and not acting swfitly in handling them. The time of dwelling on the cuts is over! It's now time to take those lemons given to you and learn how to make lemonade from them........like the other school did.
 
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96lioness said:
No disrespect or smack toward either school. I know Gov. Piyush Jindal has hit the Louisiana schools really hard, but our schools are always the ones that seem to get hit hardest and I hate seeing us have to struggle, especially after years and years and years of having to do it.

I will say this; it boils down to the administration at each school, along with the immediate response/action taken by each University. Dr. Llorens was announced as the chancellor at SU in May 2011; in July 2011 the bduget cuts at SU were also announced, along with the possibility of layoffs because of these cuts. Even though Dr. Llorens was only about 2 months into his chancellorship, he took swift action in immediately enforcing Southern's extingency plan, and the school sent out an SOS (Save Our Southern). In an effort to try & prevent layoffs, the University announced that classes would be held Monday through Thursday, and Friday would be used for academic counseling and advising. Further, certain faculty and staff were split (Team Blue and Team Gold), working in furloughs (one team would work full time one Friday, the other the next Friday). Dr. Llorens also made cuts to academic programs with low matriculation (Master of Arts in Communications and Physical Education). The students also joined in the effort; they held an emergency vote to increase student activity fees to help support the band & other areas that hit their school budget. Because of the quickness in implementing the extingency plan, it's safe to say that Southern probably created this plan years ago and had it ready to use.

But even though Piyush Jindal hit the school hard, Dr. Llorens still had Southern going strong. They received a $1 million donation from an alumni couple, they held a radiothon (yes, put the word out about what Jindal is doing and send in money), 3 new doctorate programs in Nursing were added, along with on-line Nursing programs; the University built a brand new intramural sports complex (which opened just last month), a brand new financial aid building was constructed, and a new addition on the Arts building was constructed. Enrollment may have dropped for Southern, but this past fall, it went back up with about 825,000-850,000 incoming freshmen. Also, I think Southern is about to start construction on new student residential facilities (I think it's for the students).

The news of the budget cuts & how they would affect both schools were made public. Both schools were hit hard. I don't know what all Grambling plans to do to survive this (and Lord knows I hope they do). I could be wrong, and I hope I am, but instead on going on and on to the media about what's already taken place, Dr. Pogue and Grambling really should be implementing and emphasizing an extingency plan (if they have one) for GSU. He's spending too much time complaining about the budget cuts and not acting swfitly in handling them. The time of dwelling on the cuts is over! It's now time to take those lemons given to you and learn how to make lemonade from them........like the other school did.
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I agree, but I do believe Grambling's hands are tied due to what the UL System requires. Even if they do have a plan already developed, they would still need to get the approval of the UL System Board to implement it. Grambling has one extra sticking point, which includes 8 other State universities that Southern doesn't have to deal with. I believe once Grambling and the UL System develop the necessary system to streamline the process and close the disconnect between Grambling and the UL System, things should workout okay. But I do agree that some type of plan needs to implemented to make Grambling strong again.

Also, this is nothing new to SU. SU implemented a plan back in the late 80's when then Governor Buddy Roemer had tried his best to defund programs at SU, which was very interesting since most of his cuts to education was directed at SU. According to Lewis on this board, Buddy Roemer had a big beef going on with SU's President Dr. Dolores Spikes. All of this took place during my graduating year of 1988/89, which was right around the same time Roemer started his term as Governor.
 
96lioness said:
The news of the budget cuts & how they would affect both schools were made public. Both schools were hit hard. I don't know what all Grambling plans to do to survive this (and Lord knows I hope they do). I could be wrong, and I hope I am, but instead on going on and on to the media about what's already taken place, Dr. Pogue and Grambling really should be implementing and emphasizing an extingency plan (if they have one) for GSU. He's spending too much time complaining about the budget cuts and not acting swfitly in handling them. The time of dwelling on the cuts is over! It's now time to take those lemons given to you and learn how to make lemonade from them........like the other school did.
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That's pretty much how I look at it.

Seems like Gram wasn't handling their business prior to the cuts and when the cuts happened they got exposed.
 
JAG89 said:
I agree, but I do believe Grambling's hands are tied due to what the UL System requires. Even if they do have a plan already developed, they would still need to get the approval of the UL System Board to implement it. Grambling has one extra sticking point, which includes 8 other State universities that Southern doesn't have to deal with. I believe once Grambling and the UL System develop the necessary system to streamline the process and close the disconnect between Grambling and the UL System, things should workout okay. But I do agree that some type of plan needs to implemented to make Grambling strong again.

Also, this is nothing new to SU. SU implemented a plan back in the late 80's when then Governor Buddy Roemer had tried his best to defund programs at SU, which was very interesting since most of his cuts to education was directed at SU. According to Lewis on this board, Buddy Roemer had a big beef going on with SU's President Dr. Dolores Spikes. All of this took place during my graduating year of 1988/89, which was right around the same time Roemer started his term as Governor.
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Gram would be better served in the SU System.
 
the elimination of certain programs at Southern, and other state institutions, were part of the Board of Regents' push to eliminate "low-complete majors/departments"

Also the Masters of Mass Communication was eliminated because it lost its accreditation. Low completer + lost accreditation = program gone. Also, we lost of Architecture school because of the cuts and its low completer status.
 
BobbyBlueBlamm said:
How was Southern able to establish their own system?
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Louisiana Constitutional amendment in 1974 created the Southern University System. Prior to 1974, you had just the LSU System and all other public higher ed institutions lumped in the state Department of Education. After 1974, you have the LSU system, the University of Louisiana System (which Grambling is a part of) and the SU system.
 
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