Paterno ‘Manipulative, Disrespectful, Uncivil And Abusive’

[JR]

If JoePa wasn't dead, he'd most likely be going to jail along with the others...

That I do not believe. Those other dudes ain't going either. They are going to get off. They are only up for perjury charges. Joe Pa was never indicted on anything. So even alive he didn't have to face criminal charges. Now getting civil sued, he would have.

 

[Dr. Phreeze]

The call by misguided souls for the NCAA to take Joe Paterno's wins away irks me because few coaches, including Eddie Robinson, run squeaky clean programs.

And like I said before, the NCAA reprimanded the Grambling State football program during Robinson's coaching career for rules violations. The NCAA found eight violations, including a lack of control over its football program headed by Eddie Robinson.
-- Jan. 1997.

The National Collegiate Athletic Association placed Grambling on two years' probation for violations by Robinson, his son Eddie Robinson Jr. and other coaches at the college. -- Aug. 1997.

Plus, it seems to me that some Robinson zealots (just like the Joe Paterno protect the legacy zealots) want this record to satisfy their own egos more so than want "a wrong righted" when there is nothing to be gained.

The only people I see where were wrong was the kid who was sodomized in the shower. The kid whose screams for help were ignored by Dottie Sandusky while her husband was raping him in the basement. Then there is the kid who was forced to give Jerry a blow job in a hotel room right before a Penn State road game. Those are the people who were wronged.

And don't refer to the victims as young men. They were children. Helpless children who were taken advantage of by sick, evil and cowardly people.

And I stand by what I say in regards to our attitudes. We give these men and entities too much power by our endless and unconditional reverence for them.

We've created a culture where football coaches, football programs and even bands are too big to fail. We enable this behavior by Penn State or FAMU and elsewhere with our ride-or-die actions. And as a result, boys get raped and band members die.

But you have folks concerned about a win-loss record of a coach whose program was punished by the NCAA for breaking the rules as well back in the day or if the Marching 100 will perform during football season. SMH.

Good post :tup:

 

[skyvolt2000]

The sad part is top prospects are still lining up to play at PSU. Silver and gold, silver and gold..........

2 ways to look at those kids running to Penn State

1) They found a school that is so desperate to win they will cover up ANYTHING a person do. Why do you think we have all these athletes especially black ones school hopping-especially in high school? How many schools did Michael Beasley and OJ Mayo go to before going to college?

They had parents looking for school that would IGNORE whatever they did to win games and attract attention from big schools.

or

2) They found a school that will protect them if something illegal or wrong happens to them. That staff is on pins and needles-everybody is waiting for them to screw up again. That school might fall apart if something like what happened at Duke of Florida A&M breaks out.

Now they jumped in on the Baylor situation with the Basketball guys so why won't they jump in on Penn. State.

Who was the person that busted Baylor??? A BLACK guy. A black guy who can't get a job now.

You had a black kid kill another black kid. What is racial mix of most basketball teams? You ignore Baylor and the hood will shutdown sending kids there. They lose out on recruits and every school in the SWAC, MEAC, Indys and other lower conferences would have a field day beating them up.

Penn State is already being punished-most of the guilty is gone, they have lost recruits, lawsuits will be filed and all they have to do is sit back and wait for Penn to screw up again. And SMU them.

Now, I did not want to believe that he orchestrated the cover-up. It seemed more feasible that he simply just went with it.

The thing is-he might have wanted to do the right thing but when talk about SPORTS-folks don't GAF about what is right.

Why do you think so many of these kids get away with stuff?

Because SOMEBODY is going to protect them. Be it kinfolk, church members, frats, soros, Q-Dogs, mistress, mister, gay lover or both.

Look at Baylor-the guy that busted them is begin 8-balled by the NCAA. Even coach K trashed him. Yet Dave Bliss is SLOWLY being welcomed back.

Joe busted them and he would have been gone the next day. Even through he would have been RIGHT to reveal the truth.

Folks fear RETALIATION.

 

[chocalate_topaz]

And don't refer to the victims as young men. They were children. Helpless children who were taken advantage of by sick, evil and cowardly people.

Pump your brakes. I'll refer as I'd like to and I did. They are young men now as I was speaking of. reread...

 

[IB4DemJags]

You are trying to mesh stuff to make a nonvalid point.

The record matters to many. If not you, cool. Keep it moving. Don't get why it irks you that people want JoePa expunged from the leaderboard. Its called differences of opinion.

The last highlighted...the fact that someone wants a wrong righted doesn't take away from the injured young men. Its saying BECAUSE the YOUNG MEN were injured, this guy shouldn't be revered. I mean, what kind of BS are we promoting when they walk in and see their rapist's boss--who was well aware they were being molested--standing up there proudly?

Cconnecting the dots = FAIL

Thanks chocalate_topaz...at least there is one who understands that I am not speaking to the record as being the most important issue in this....And Kendrick no one is disputing that the kids or young men as they are now are not the most important issue here....My point is that since obtaining that record and saving their asses until they could get that record was the main reason for the cover-up, they should be stripped of it because of the avenue they took and the people they hurt to get there...that is all I am saying....To truly punish someone for a crime you can not allow them to ultimately receive what they committed the crime for in the first place...that is all....

Those folks will take their lick to achieve the bigger prize and that is to FOREVER have that Prestigious Record associated with Joe Pa and Penn State....They don't think as we do...They put their institutions above all...they will lie, steal, cheat, and even cover-up crimes if it means their Institution gains some type of glory...yea It is rough now, but in the long run and in the big picture to them it was worth it, cause 20 years from now this will have died down, but they will still have that prestige of having that all time honor.....

You just gotta punish people where it hurts them MOST....in the pocket ain't it cause they swim in money and with jail time ain't cause those who get it will take their lick for the institution (Mob style). You got to make them pay by taking away the goal/reward for committing the crime in the first place....

 

[Kendrick]

Thanks chocalate_topaz...at least there is one who understands that I am not speaking to the record as being the most important issue in this....And Kendrick no one is disputing that the kids or young men as they are now are not the most important issue here....My point is that since obtaining that record and saving their asses until they could get that record was the main reason for the cover-up, they should be stripped of it because of the avenue they took and the people they hurt to get there...that is all I am saying....To truly punish someone for a crime you can not allow them to ultimately receive what they committed the crime for in the first place...that is all....

Those folks will take their lick to achieve the bigger prize and that is to FOREVER have that Prestigious Record associated with Joe Pa and Penn State....They don't think as we do...They put their institutions above all...they will lie, steal, cheat, and even cover-up crimes if it means their Institution gains some type of glory...yea It is rough now, but in the long run and in the big picture to them it was worth it, cause 20 years from now this will have died down, but they will still have that prestige of having that all time honor.....

You just gotta punish people where it hurts them MOST....in the pocket ain't it cause they swim in money and with jail time ain't cause those who get it will take their lick for the institution (Mob style). You got to make them pay by taking away the goal/reward for committing the crime in the first place....

If the all-time wins record was that important to the school, why would suits ask Joe to resign years earlier?

 

[DonTiger]

I agree 100% that the bigger picture is about those kids and the damage that was done to them, but I still say that because of the reason it was allowed to go on so long was about that record...so are you guys saying that it is ok for them to reach their goal and still claim all the glory of having such a prestigious record associated with Joe Pa and Penn State once this all blows over (and it will, you know it will) down the line, as long as they take their lick now. So the no pain no gain rule is in effect right? Now the pain and suffering was put in those folks life, and allowed to continue so that Joe Pa and Penn State could accomplish this...for those kids and their family that ain't going away, but for the rest of the College Sports world when this all blows over and everyone else has forgotten about this, they will still have that accomplishment in their trophy case...I think that is very unfair...I think that is a crime in itself...That's just like robbing a bank, hiding the money right before you get caught, doing your time, then when you get out, reaping the benefits of your crime and living off those benefits...

You can punish Sandusky and the others for covering up the crime, but Joe is dead...he should not be punished, rather be allowed to be rewarded for being the all-time winningest coach in the history of the D1 football, right?....Now how is that cool....

Now honor the victims by punishing ALL that were involved properly! That may not solve their hurt, but it would be justice!

You said it best in the 1st line. . . "THE BIGGER PICTURE" is child molestation. I think the issues are mutually exclusive of each other. . . Jerry Sanduski, Joe Paterno and the 3 Stooges crimes are not measured in wins and losses on the football field. If JoePa had went home and went postal on his family one day killing everyone, should his wins be erased then?? Again, where do you draw the line between life and sports. These people are monsters and they will be judged in REAL LIFE for their REAL LIFE crimes against children. Who cares about a football game or a stinking record. If I am a child molesting pedophile and also the world champion dominoe player WHO GIVES A *UCK about my got dam* dominoe trophy? So Joe has 400 + wins. Who in the world gives 2 $h!ts about that today??? All they talking about is what he did in real life to expose those kids. . .

Real life and Real consequences is what this is about. Not a stinkin record man. .

 

[DonTiger]

Barry Switzer said this when it first came out months ago, that no way that you be around someone like coaches do and not hear or see something. He said folks on that staff knew about Sandusky. I always said, that is why Paterno fired him in 98 or 99 when dude was only 50 something years old. Why the University didn't part with this guy all the way around is beyond me. It's like Sandusky had something on them. Or like I have said in other threads. Somebody bigger than Penn State is involved with them boys. Just doesn't make sense to me. Why would you cover up something for a damn assistant coach? How would it embarrass the school? It would have made them look like heroes had they told the authorities about Sandusky. There is more to this. I want them to continue investigating. Somebody is getting a free pass on this one. No way one man was that important to cover up just to protect the Penn State football brand. There is more to it. They are hiding more isht. If they all told the police when they should have. The media would have applauded Joe Pa and Penn State for being righteous and exposing a pedophile. How they sat there and concluded it would embarrass the school is beyond comprehension. Sandusky has something on them or somebody. He has to.

I don't know about some 'Supreme Mr Charlie' in the governor's mansion or something. But I do agree with the sentiment that there is some unknown dynamic to this...

I can understand (NOT AGREE, CONDONE OR TOLERATE) but understand a selfish, cruel act of covering up a scandal to protect your golden egg. Greed, power, money are very motivating. So, I can understand what was going on in the minds of Joe and the 3 stooges when they decided to try to cover up an potentially embarrasing evidence. They are greedy selfish monsters... That's what they do.

BUT

I can't figure out why they kept the guy around. .. Why continue to give him full access. Why does he have an office right next to yours? Why is he invited on bowl trips ? Why is he sitting in the Lion CLub press box ? Why are you still KICKING IT WITH THIS DUDE ??
Be a selfish prick. Cover it up. Cover your @$$. Protect your golden egg.... BUT why at the very least continue to expose yourself to possible future problems. More accusations by keeping him in your midsts. . . You would think they would at least want to distance themselves from any future occurrance with this guy. So. .. Why . . . Why keep him around? Hmmmm ??

 

[DonTiger]

.My point is that since obtaining that record and saving their asses until they could get that record was the main reason for the cover-up, they should be stripped of it because of the avenue they took and the people they hurt to get there...that is all I am saying....To truly punish someone for a crime you can not allow them to ultimately receive what they committed the crime for in the first place...that is all....

Those folks will take their lick to achieve the bigger prize and that is to FOREVER have that Prestigious Record associated with Joe Pa and Penn State....They don't think as we do...They put their institutions above all...they will lie, steal, cheat, and even cover-up crimes if it means their Institution gains some type of glory...yea It is rough now, but in the long run and in the big picture to them it was worth it, cause 20 years from now this will have died down, but they will still have that prestige of having that all time honor.....

You got to make them pay by taking away the goal/reward for committing the crime in the first place....

Now I see. . You understand that the record is not the big picture. You just beleive that JoePa and the 3 stooges thought it WAS the big picture.. .
Not money, power or prestige that they already had been enjoying for 20 or 30 years. Not the threat of being embarrased and losing their esteem as 'the Honorable PennSt'. You have figured that the vision of having a wins record 14 years in the future (remember the cover up started in 1998) was somehow some supreme motivator for them over all they were eating up at the time . . . . Come on man. . .

I obviously disagree with you. And continue to assert that thier crimes are punishable by a higher standard and have nothing to do with a got dam* wins and losses record .

And 20 years later. Folks will remember this when his name is mentioned. Folks will ALWAYS remember this when his name, Sanduski's name comes up. They are linked. Roger Clemens will be remembered, Barry Bonds, Mark McGuire. . . They will ever be linked to steroids. They will most likely never get into the hall. Do you think in 20 years Barry Bonds will be in the Hall of Fame and people wont' remember the steroids scandle? Of course they will and of course JoePa will be remembered for this FOREVER. ..

 

[IB4DemJags]

Kendrick you say suits wanted Joe out, well Joe and Bigger more powerful Penn State suits had a plan and a goal in mind and they executed it, and didn't care who they hurt along the way or the price they would have to pay if they were caught....now if yall can't see that....then I give.....

 

[DonTiger]

If the all-time wins record was that important to the school, why would suits ask Joe to resign years earlier?

And why would that motivate someone 14 years away from the record? (this cover-up started 14 years and 100+ wins ago)
It was 1998. He broke the record last year. . . Come on man . . A record . . . Dude. .

 

[IB4DemJags]

I don't know about some 'Supreme Mr Charlie' in the governor's mansion or something. But I do agree with the sentiment that there is some unknown dynamic to this...

I can understand (NOT AGREE, CONDONE OR TOLERATE) but understand a selfish, cruel act of covering up a scandal to protect your golden egg. Greed, power, money are very motivating. So, I can understand what was going on in the minds of Joe and the 3 stooges when they decided to try to cover up an potentially embarrasing evidence. They are greedy selfish monsters... That's what they do.

BUT

I can't figure out why they kept the guy around. .. Why continue to give him full access. Why does he have an office right next to yours? Why is he invited on bowl trips ? Why is he sitting in the Lion CLub press box ? Why are you still KICKING IT WITH THIS DUDE ??
Be a selfish prick. Cover it up. Cover your @$$. Protect your golden egg.... BUT why at the very least continue to expose yourself to possible future problems. More accusations by keeping him in your midsts. . . You would think they would at least want to distance themselves from any future occurrance with this guy. So. .. Why . . . Why keep him around? Hmmmm ??

First of all lol at Joe and the 3 Stooges....I heard that one too this morning on ESPN radio....

now back to what we were talking about....
read your own words and then apply what I have been telling you and then you'll understand....Monsters don't care about the same things you and I do....their values are different from most....and you say why keep him around....well when you trying to pull something off with as little press as to what is really going on you don't rock the boat....you don't give a reason to come in and say why is this long time friend of the program and coach now band from the program....you don't want that type of attention...cause after you initially denied knowledge of this you cant let someone come in start asking questions and either Sandusky or someone else leaks how you already knew and did little to nothing about it....they would have been in the situation they are in today 11 or 12 years ago....

Monsters don't give a F#&K...as long as they get what they are after.....

 

[Kendrick]

Kendrick you say suits wanted Joe out, well Joe and Bigger more powerful Penn State suits had a plan and a goal in mind and they executed it, and didn't care who they hurt along the way or the price they would have to pay if they were caught....now if yall can't see that....then I give.....

Of course.

But what did that have to do with the all-time wins record?

If anything, the main reason for the cover up was probably to protect the financial interests Paterno and others had as part of Second Mile (which Joe was a lucrative donor and board member).

Before this thing blew up, Joe and his rich Second Mile buddies were trying to finalize a $125 million real estate deal engineered by Paterno, Second Mile chairman Robert Poole, PSU trustee William Scheyer and others.

Paterno was rumored to be in other side businesses with Second Mile board members that included a bottled-water company, a coaching website and a convenience-store chain.

If Jerry Sandusky was pinched, there is no Second Mile. If there is no Second Mile, Joe and his friends can't make business deals.

 

[IB4DemJags]

Of course.

But what did that have to do with the all-time wins record?

Again...I GIVE!....UNCLE....UNCLE....UNCLE.....

 

[DonTiger]

Of course.

But what did that have to do with the all-time wins record?

If anything, the main reason for the cover up was probably to protect the financial interests Paterno and others had as part of Second Mile (which Joe was a lucrative donor and board member).

Before this thing blew up, Joe and his rich Second Mile buddies were trying to finalize a $125 million real estate deal engineered by Paterno, Second Mile chairman Robert Poole, PSU trustee William Scheyer and others.

Paterno was rumored to be in other side businesses with Second Mile board members that included a bottled-water company, a coaching website and a convenience-store chain.

If Jerry Sandusky was pinched, there is no Second Mile. If there is no Second Mile, Joe and his friends can't make business deals.

Hmmm. Had never heard the financial spin involving Joe personally with the second mile. .. Money involved... Another motivator to keep this guy around.. .

 

[DonTiger]

Again...I GIVE!....UNCLE....UNCLE....UNCLE.....

Before you walk out man. .. Please share your thoughts on my viewpoint concerning the time line. As I said, I find it hard to believe that 4 men in 1998 found a wins record 14 years and 100+ w's away the primary motivating factor here. That's a lot of foresight there man when such carnal motivators like money, power, greed and pride were right there in 1998 . . .

 

[IB4DemJags]

Before you walk out man. .. Please share your thoughts on my viewpoint concerning the time line. As I said, I find it hard to believe that 4 men in 1998 found a wins record 14 years and 100+ w's away the primary motivating factor here. That's a lot of foresight there man when such carnal motivators like money, power, greed and pride were right there in 1998 . . .

Don I didn't say I was walking out, just give up on trying to get yall to see what I was saying.....

So you honestly don't think those folks think that far ahead....wow....maybe that is why we are so far behind....and another thing...don't you know the money, power and pride that would come along with that accomplishment....that is a selling point to potential recruits...to corporate sponsors....to motivate alums...etc....

and you really...I mean really...don't think those folks think that far ahead....amazing....Only us think short term...people with real plans think long term, big picture stuff...only we think here and now about our programs and institution where as they think of what will my program have, look like, status be 10+ years from now....

we so blinded by the simple BS put in our faces here and now that we cant even began to think of a plan to make us better in the future...we look at other programs that have in the here and now and instead of looking to see how they got there and the plans they laid long time ago to get there, then applying some of those principles to our own program so we would have in the future...we would rather jump ship and pull others with us to theirs....

Man let me stop, cause this is another topic I am headed on...But I hope that somewhere in there I answered your question Don....at least I feel I did...somewhere in there...

 

[Kendrick]

Hmmm. Had never heard the financial spin involving Joe personally with the second mile. .. Money involved... Another motivator to keep this guy around.. .

Yep. Those folks were not trying to cover this up for wins. They were trying to cover this up so the public would never find out Jerry, who was a revered Penn State coach, was pimping boys to rich Second Mile donors.

Sportswriter Mark Madden went on WEEI in Boston and reported a rumor that alleged child molester Jerry Sandusky would pimp out boys to rich donors.

"I hear a rumor that there will be a shocking development from the Second Miles Foundation ... That Jerry Sandusky and Second Mile were pimping out young boys to rich donors."

Madden claims it's being investigated by "two prominent columnists."

We'd say this is ridiculous, and that you should take it with a grain of salt. But Madden actually wrote about Sandusky for the Beaver County Times six months ago — long before the scandal blindsided everyone else this week.

Madden also claimed Sandusky was forced out of Penn State in 1999.

"I think you'll find out that Jerry Sandusky was told he had to retire in exchange for a cover up."

http://articles.businessinsider.com...1_child-molester-madden-claims-jerry-sandusky

 

[DonTiger]

First of all lol at Joe and the 3 Stooges....I heard that one too this morning on ESPN radio....

.

Man I give my WORD that the '3 stooges' thing just came to me while I started posting on this thread today. Didn't hear anybody else or media throw that out. . . I should have copywrited the phrase :lol:

 

[DonTiger]

So you honestly don't think those folks think that far ahead....wow....maybe that is why we are so far behind....
and you really...I mean really...don't think those folks think that far ahead....amazing....Only us think short term...people with real plans think long term, big picture stuff...only we think here and now about our programs and institution where as they think of what will my program have, look like, status be 10+ years from now....

Man I KNOW them folks think that far ahead. What I don't believe is that in 1998, the primary motivating factor for covering up the scandal was because of the pending 'record'. The reasons that I feel this wasn't the PRIMARY motivating factor is because 1) It was 14 years before the record was broken 2) It was 100 + wins away from the record 3) Joe was already 70 + years old, what guarantee would you have for either of the 1st two reasons with a man of his age. 4) Bobby Bowden was still coaching and winning big, was there a plot to assasinate him too if he got close, after all , they are thinking ahead right. and 5) The money, power, status, and pride they had established and enjoyed for decades before the 1998 incident is plenty motivator enough for those men to not want to lose. To hell with how fat the hog could be 14 years from then . ..

I know we keep goin round and round with this but for real. . . I just don't see that being the PRIMARY reason. I don't see that being the 'reward' as chocolate topaz put it. . . Come on man. It was 1998 . ..

 

[Kendrick]

Man I KNOW them folks think that far ahead. What I don't believe is that in 1998, the primary motivating factor for covering up the scandal was because of the pending 'record'. The reasons that I feel this wasn't the PRIMARY motivating factor is because 1) It was 14 years before the record was broken 2) It was 100 + wins away from the record 3) Joe was already 70 + years old, what guarantee would you have for either of the 1st two reasons with a man of his age. 4) Bobby Bowden was still coaching and winning big, was there a plot to assasinate him too if he got close, after all , they are thinking ahead right. and 5) The money, power, status, and pride they had established and enjoyed for decades before the 1998 incident is plenty motivator enough for those men to not want to lose. To hell with how fat the hog could be 14 years from then . ..

I know we keep goin round and round with this but for real. . . I just don't see that being the PRIMARY reason. I don't see that being the 'reward' as chocolate topaz put it. . . Come on man. It was 1998 . ..

Not to mention, Joe Paterno testified in front of a grand jury prior to the start of the 2011 season about Sandusky possibly molesting children. McCreepy testified about it in 2010. So, all parties involved were well aware (before Paterno broke Robinson's record) that a probe into this case by the legal community had been established, which began in 2008.