Single, Saved —and


Having Sex...

More are asking, “Am I really condemning my soul to eternal damnation by getting my freak on Saturday night and praising the Lord on Sunday morning?” As many as 80 percent of young unmarried Christians have had sex, according to Relevant, a magazine for Christians aged 18 to 30.


Even as they uphold abstinence as ideal, religious leaders can no longer ignore the elephant in the sanctuary. From a newsletter published by pastor Creflo Dollar: “There was a time when … marriage was honored and respected ... and sexual relationships outside of marriage were certainly not accepted as the norm. However, times have changed … values have moved away from the standard of God’s Word because of selfishness.”

“The Bible is clear that you should not have sex outside of marriage, but that is not the reality of what’s going on,” says Sophia Nelson, award-winning author of Black Woman Redefined: Dispelling Myths and Discovering Fulfillment in the Age of Michelle Obama (BenBella Books).

“It is unrealistic in the 21st century to expect celibacy until marriage. We live in a sexualized society and [during] a time [when] people marry much later,” says Nelson.

http://www.ebony.com/love-sex/single-saved-and-having-sex



As much as I'm NOT a fan of Creflo A. Dollar, he makes a good point. Nowadays, in this season, we're living in a time where what was once immoral and wrong has now become so familiar and encouraged, what's good and right and just has now become peculiar to so many people.
 
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Having Sex...

More are asking, “Am I really condemning my soul to eternal damnation by getting my freak on Saturday night and praising the Lord on Sunday morning?†As many as 80 percent of young unmarried Christians have had sex, according to Relevant, a magazine for Christians aged 18 to 30.


Even as they uphold abstinence as ideal, religious leaders can no longer ignore the elephant in the sanctuary. From a newsletter published by pastor Creflo Dollar: “There was a time when … marriage was honored and respected ... and sexual relationships outside of marriage were certainly not accepted as the norm. However, times have changed … values have moved away from the standard of God’s Word because of selfishness.â€

“The Bible is clear that you should not have sex outside of marriage, but that is not the reality of what’s going on,†says Sophia Nelson, award-winning author of Black Woman Redefined: Dispelling Myths and Discovering Fulfillment in the Age of Michelle Obama (BenBella Books).

“It is unrealistic in the 21st century to expect celibacy until marriage. We live in a sexualized society and [during] a time [when] people marry much later,†says Nelson.

http://www.ebony.com/love-sex/single-saved-and-having-sex

Religious leaders are some of the main folks to blame due to the rise of teen pregnancy. Many of them were the very ones naively advocating celibacy, while at the same time advocating against condoms and various types of birth control.
Humans are sexual creatures just like most primates and will always crave sex, both young and old.

Look at the biblical characters who had sex partners outside of marriage in spite of having direct contact with the biblical god: Abraham and his concubine, Jacob and his concubines; David and his concubine, Solomon and his thousand wives, as well as others.

Lot, the nephew of Abraham, screwed his two daughters, yet he was called "righteous". Say what?
What’s a young person reading this supposed to think about incest and sex in general?

Let's not forget the many sexual perverts getting away with the outright raping of little boys by hiding amongst the Catholic and Protestant clergy.
If the teachers and shepherds are busy getting their groove on, one can only imagine what the congregation and flock will be doing.

Since we’re on the subject of sex, what does the bible say about masturbation? I know Onan in the bible, was killed by the biblical god for doing it. What if a woman does it?
Either way, does the bible say it’s wrong and WHY would it be?
 



Since we’re on the subject of sex, what does the bible say about masturbation? What if a woman does it?
Either way, does the bible say it’s wrong and WHY would it be?

God didn't punish Onan for masturbation. He punished him for disobeying a direct order to provide an heir for his brother.

Masturbation is wrong, Jay.

Why is it wrong?Well, that act is usually done out of lust. And lust is a sin. Masturbation is usually a by-production of some form of sexual stimulation like watching porn, reading Playboy or gawking at a scantily-clad woman/man. That is lust of the eyes, which God condemns.

Also, we are supposed to honor God with our bodies. So do you think jacking off accomplishes that? It would be wise to read I Corinthians 6:19 as well. You know, which says in part, "Your body is a temple." And Romans 6:13-16, 7:5, 12:1; Col 3:5 and 2 Tim 2:10, too.
 
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God didn't punish Onan for masturbation. He punished him for disobeying a direct order to provide an heir for his brother.

Masturbation is wrong, Jay.

Why is it wrong?Well, that act is usually done out of lust. And lust is a sin. Masturbation is usually a by-production of some form of sexual stimulation like watching porn, reading Playboy or gawking at a scantily-clad woman/man. That is lust of the eyes, which God condemns.

Also, we are supposed to honor God with our bodies. So do you think jacking off accomplishes that? It would be wise to read I Corinthians 6:19 as well. You know, which says in part, "Your body is a temple." And Romans 6:13-16, 7:5, 12:1; Col 3:5 and 2 Tim 2:10, too.
This is hilarious!!!
 
Tpop33, just because sex is not a need for you, doesn't mean it can't be a need for someone else. If you believe Maslow's theory, then everyone's needs are different.
 
kendrick; [QUOTE said:
God didn't punish Onan for masturbation. He punished him for disobeying a direct order to provide an heir for his brother.

Uhhh Kendrick, you skippped the explanation about the great men of the bible getting their groove on, including righteous Lot. LOL!!

So let me get this straight, because Onan refused to lust after his dead brother's wife, he was killed? I thought one wasn't supposed to lust after his neighbor's ox, ass or wife?

Masturbation is wrong, Jay.

So it's wrong for men or women not to please themselves, while bothering no one else in the process?

Why is it wrong?Well, that act is usually done out of lust. And lust is a sin.

So why was it okay for the biblical god to order the Israelite men to only keep alive captured virgins, while killing off the other women? Why do you suspect they were being allowed to only keep alive the virgins? Hmmm, I have an idea, but I'd like to hear yours.

Masturbation is usually a by-production of some form of sexual stimulation like watching porn, reading Playboy or gawking at a scantily-clad woman/man. That is lust of the eyes, which God condemns.

So men and women were created with various hormones which causes us to desire the opposite sex, yet we're not supposed to lust?
This is virtually impossible to do if one sees a woman he's attracted to.
If it's wrong to masturbate, is it sin for a man or women to dream about having sex while they are asleep?

Also, we are supposed to honor God with our bodies. So do you think jacking off accomplishes that? It would be wise to read I Corinthians 6:19 as well. You know, which says in part, "Your body is a temple." And Romans 6:13-16, 7:5, 12:1; Col 3:5 and 2 Tim 2:10, too.

What does masturbating have to do with dishonoring the very god who supposedly created the hormones in men and women that causes lust? It's no sin against another person, so how is this supposed to be sin? He even supposedly created the curves of women and the body makeup of women for men to be attracted too, so how can he then turn around and condemn us for something he created in us?
 
This is hilarious!!!

It sure is and it makes no sense and it contradicts itself. Onan being killed because he didn't want to father a child by his dead brother's wife? That is kind of funny but I don't think Onan thought it was.:snicker:
 
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So let me get this straight, because Onan refused to lust after his dead brother's wife, he was killed? I thought one wasn't supposed to lust after his neighbor's ox, ass or wife?

Onan was not killed for failing to lust after his brother's wife. He was killed for disobeying God's command to keep his family's linage alive as part of the Levirate marriage mandate as outlined in Deut. 25:5-6 and Deut. 25:9-10.

So it's wrong for men or women not to please themselves, while bothering no one else in the process?

I take it you didn't read those scriptures I posted.

So why was it okay for the biblical god to order the Israelite men to only keep alive captured virgins, while killing off the other women? Why do you suspect they were being allowed to only keep alive the virgins?

They were merely permitted to possess them as female slaves, educating them in their families, and employing them as domestics. You can find that in Deu 21.
So men and women were created with various hormones which causes us to desire the opposite sex, yet we're not supposed to lust?
This is virtually impossible to do if one sees a woman he's attracted to.
If it's wrong to masturbate, is it sin for a man or women to dream about having sex while they are asleep?

How are these things impossible when God himself came in the flesh, was tempted 40 days by the Devil, and did not sin?

Ultimately, we cannot control what we dream about or what happens with our bodies while we are asleep. However, if we are filling our minds with lustful / sinful things during the day, it will likely show up in our dreams.

What does masturbating have to do with dishonoring the very god who supposedly created the hormones in men and women that causes lust? It's no sin against another person, so how is this supposed to be sin? He even supposedly created the curves of women and the body makeup of women for men to be attracted too, so how can he then turn around and condemn us for something he created in us?

I Cor 6:18

As far as Lot, his daughters got him drunk and took advantage of him. Their motivation for such an unusual act was their belief that every man on earth except for their father had been killed. If they did not commit incest, then their family line would die out. Read Gen 19:32-36.
 
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It's too funny, because it proves what you and oft times myself have been saying on this board.
It sure is and it makes no sense and it contradicts itself. Onan being killed because he didn't want to father a child by his dead brother's wife? That is kind of funny but I don't think Onan thought it was.:snicker:
 
kendrick; -Onan was not killed for failing to lust after his brother's wife. He was killed for disobeying God's command to keep his family's linage alive as part of the Levirate marriage mandate as outlined in Deut. 25:5-6 and Deut. 25:9-10. So the biblical god commanded him to have a child even though he didn’t want one? If this was the case said:
-I take it you didn't read those scriptures I posted.

I'm asking you, what's wrong with a man or woman pleasing himself or herself at their own expense?

-They were merely permitted to possess them as female slaves, educating them in their families, and employing them as domestics. You can find that in Deu 21.

Come on Kendrick, you can do better than this, I just know you can. So, the baby boys, girls, women and men were ALL killed off but the “virgins” were the only ones to be kept alive? Why just the virgins? The boys could’ve been used as slaves and educated as well as the women who weren’t virgins.
Come on and tell the truth Kendrick that deep down, you know these virgins were kept as sex slaves first and servants as a secondary notion.

-How are these things impossible when God himself came in the flesh, was tempted 40 days by the Devil, and did not sin?

Name one human being, other than the Jesus character, who was said to have had the full measure of the holy spirit to help him cope with satan. I’ll tell you how many. Zero humans, so in essence, you're comparing apples to oranges.

-Ultimately, we cannot control what we dream about or what happens with our bodies while we are asleep. However, if we are filling our minds with lustful / sinful things during the day, it will likely show up in our dreams.

Sin is sin whether it’s in one’s dreams or not isn’t it? If you wake up after having a “wet dream”, according to the bible you’ve sin.
You’re being judged for “thought crimes” while you were asleep. Would you have to repent for having those thoughts during your sleep?

-I Cor 6:18

How is masturbating sinning against your own body? Please explain that one.
I’ve read that not masturbating can lead to a number of physical and mental health issues.
The male body requires that semen be emitted from the body regularly. Failure to masturbate regularly can actually lead to a high state of sexual arousal. Failure to masturbate regularly can also lead to sexual frustration, stress, and even testicular cancer. It can’t give you an STD either.
Did Paul have access to the above information? Obviously not.

It’s mighty interesting that folks actually believe that a supposed all-powerful being, who created the vastness of not only our galaxy, with it’s millions of planets, but the entire universe, that he’s so concerned and wrapped up in what we do with our private parts.
Seems to me that’s micro-managing to the extreme.

ONLY IN RELIGION IS MASTURBATION A SIN, BUT IT’S HEALTHY IF YOU ASK ANY HEALTH PROFESSIONAL WORTH ANYTHING.

-As far as Lot, his daughters got him drunk and took advantage of him. Their motivation for such an unusual act was their belief that every man on earth except for their father had been killed. If they did not commit incest, then their family line would die out. Read Gen 19:32-36.

So twice in consecutive nights this “righteous” man let his daughters rape him and with just wine?! Please. Seems to me that Lot was not only incestuous, he was a devoted alcoholic.
Some of these biblical stories leave nothing to be desired.
 
I am just now coming to this point. I am engaged now. I still struggle with lust like I always have but honestly, I have way many more moments of clarity these days. I used to wake up sometime, realize that some young lady was particularly in my bed, and dang near be depressed.

Kendrick,
I was the star athlete of my high school, I was given the "stud" speech from plenty of people. My father's only advice was, "I know you are having sex, you will probably have a lot more when you go to college, just don't make any babies".


but more so than that, when I got to about 14, the old heads would always ask me and my homeboys if we were having sex, giving us pointers on how to bed young ladies, etc... Those barbershop discussions have a big influence.


Pops, there will always be moments when we battle with our flesh, but you posted that you "have way many more moments of clarity". Dwell more on those moments of clarity as best as you can, in any situation. Clear and cool minds prevail.....:swink:
 
I'm asking you, what's wrong with a man or woman pleasing himself or herself at their own expense?

I've explained it.
How is masturbating sinning against your own body? Please explain that one.

Our bodies are the members of Christ. Ephesians 5:30 states, "For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones." 1 Corinthians 12:27 declares, "Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular." We who are saved have a unique and integral connection with Jesus Christ. Our own bodies are members of Him. Our body, as well as our spirit, has been bought with a price (Christ on the cross) and truly belongs to the Lord. So, we not only sin against ourselves by masturbating, we corrupt the gift God has given us.

ONLY IN RELIGION IS MASTURBATION A SIN, BUT IT’S HEALTHY IF YOU ASK ANY HEALTH PROFESSIONAL WORTH ANYTHING.

So now we're expected to conform to man's standards instead of God's? Interesting.
Name one human being, other than the Jesus character, who was said to have had the full measure of the holy spirit to help him cope with satan.

Job is one person.
Come on Kendrick, you can do better than this, I just know you can. So, the baby boys, girls, women and men were ALL killed off but the “virginsâ€￾ were the only ones to be kept alive? Why just the virgins? The boys could’ve been used as slaves and educated as well as the women who weren’t virgins.
Come on and tell the truth Kendrick that deep down, you know these virgins were kept as sex slaves first and servants as a secondary notion.

You seem to know all the answers why don't you tell me.
 
Uhhh Kendrick, you skippped the explanation about the great men of the bible getting their groove on, including righteous Lot. LOL!!

So let me get this straight, because Onan refused to lust after his dead brother's wife, he was killed? I thought one wasn't supposed to lust after his neighbor's ox, ass or wife?
...
You are not this ignorant. You must have typed this in a moment of simply trying insult Kendrick (and the rest of us believers).
 
kendrick; [QUOTE said:
I've explained it.

God did it so that settles it? Is that your answer and are you sticking to it? No evidence to support your post?
Plus the bible is so contradictory when it comes to sex. One minute you can take and rape virgins, you can sell daughters to their rapist, but this same god a few thousand years later changes his tune? Which of his teachings are one to obey? How do you know which contradictory is superior to the other?

Our bodies are the members of Christ. Ephesians 5:30 states, "For we are members of his body, of his flesh, and of his bones." 1 Corinthians 12:27 declares, "Now ye are the body of Christ, and members in particular." We who are saved have a unique and integral connection with Jesus Christ. Our own bodies are members of Him. Our body, as well as our spirit, has been bought with a price (Christ on the cross) and truly belongs to the Lord. So, we not only sin against ourselves by masturbating, we corrupt the gift God has given us.

I just listed the positives and healthful benefits of masturbation supported by scientific evidence, but nevermind that because that's only man's logic?
If I followed the "logic" of the bible, I'd be able to keep virgins as sex slaves. I'd be able to sell my daughter to her rapist and guess what, I'd be right....according to the bible. Why? Because it's right there IN the bible.

So now we're expected to conform to man's standards instead of God's? Interesting.

What standard is it when it's okay to sell one's daughter to their rapist? What standard is it when it's okay to keep alive only the virgins?
If man's standards surpasses that of selling one's daughter to her rapist and if man's standard surpasses that of keeping alive only the virgins as sex slaves, then I'd say an emphatic, "YES", we're supposed to conform to higher standards whether by men or whomever.

Job is one person.

Where does it say that Job had the full measure of a holy spirit? If he did, it didn't stop him from engaging in one of the worst sins according to the bible, which is self-righteousness. Nice try though.

You seem to know all the answers why don't you tell me.

I have my answer, but I'm curious as to what yours is, so I'll ask again: "
So, the baby boys, girls, women and men were ALL killed off but the “virgins” were the only ones to be kept alive? Why just the virgins?"
Thanks for your answer.
 



God did it so that settles it? Is that your answer and are you sticking to it? No evidence to support your post?

Yep. Yes. And I've provided evidence. If you can't except it, then that's fine.

I just listed the positives and healthful benefits of masturbation supported by scientific evidence, but nevermind that because that's only man's logic?
If I followed the "logic" of the bible, I'd be able to keep virgins as sex slaves. I'd be able to sell my daughter to her rapist and guess what, I'd be right....according to the bible. Why? Because it's right there IN the bible.

Jay, I and Dacon explained this to you already.

I have my answer, but I'm curious as to what yours is, so I'll ask again: "
So, the baby boys, girls, women and men were ALL killed off but the “virginsâ€￾ were the only ones to be kept alive? Why just the virgins?"
Thanks for your answer.

Why are you asking questions about things you already have the answers to?
 
You are not this ignorant. You must have typed this in a moment of simply trying insult Kendrick (and the rest of us believers).

Trying to insult whom and for what?

Which part are you referring to: the part about him ignoring the so-called righteous men who got their groove on OR the part about Onan?

If one is going to tell it, TELL THE WHOLE STORY, not just the parts that seem to be all lovey dovey.

First, what god is SO concerned about a man having sex with the wife of a dead brother he doesn't love? Why is he trying to force this man to have sex with a woman he doesn't love? Is THIS moral? Is this a standard that you'd want Americans to live by today? You claimed earlier that humans are "free moral agents", but this Onan person didn't have a free choice. It was either do it or die. Some choice.

Instead of the biblical god literally forcing another man to have sex against his will and impregnating a woman against his will, he could've used his miraculous powers to artificially inseminate the woman, as he supposedly did with others? He didn't have to force this man to implant his sperm into another woman against his will.

And you claim that we're free moral agents? Yeah, upon pain of death I see. That's no more freedom than someone giving me the choice of jumping off a bridge or drowning myself.
 
kendrick; [QUOTE said:
Yep. Yes. And I've provided evidence. If you can't except it, then that's fine.

You provided bible verses. That's not evidence, that's based up "faith". Let's not confuse the two.

Jay, I and Dacon explained this to you already.

Again, you listed bible verses. That's based upon "faith", not evidence.

Why are you asking questions about things you already have the answers to?

I'm giving you the opportunity to explain your side of the equation. That's only fair and good isn't it?
There are times I can learn something too. I don't have all the answers, but I have a lot of them.

I'll ask again and I'll make it a yes or not question if that'll help. "Do you really believe that the virgins were kept alive by the Israelite men ONLY for slave and/or educational purposes and not for sexual purposes? Yes or no?"
 
Jay,

Come on, son. At this point no matter what I or anyone else post in response to the many questions you have, you won't accept our responses.

You are just looking for answers and explanations that fit your point of view.

Jay, you come on the Prayer Board frequented by believers and expect us to waver without providing any credible evidence to refute what's stated in the Bible.
 
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Jay,

Come on, son. At this point no matter what I or anyone else post in response to the many questions you have, you won't accept our responses.

You are just looking for answers and explanations that fit your point of view.

Jay, you come on the Prayer Board frequented by believers and expect us to waver without providing any credible evidence to refute what's stated in the Bible.
You cannot be serious. The only evidence you guys have is a seriously flawed book. Ok I lie, you have none.
 
Trying to insult whom and for what?

Which part are you referring to: the part about him ignoring the so-called righteous men who got their groove on OR the part about Onan?

If one is going to tell it, TELL THE WHOLE STORY, not just the parts that seem to be all lovey dovey.

First, what god is SO concerned about a man having sex with the wife of a dead brother he doesn't love? Why is he trying to force this man to have sex with a woman he doesn't love? Is THIS moral? Is this a standard that you'd want Americans to live by today? You claimed earlier that humans are "free moral agents", but this Onan person didn't have a free choice. It was either do it or die. Some choice.

Instead of the biblical god literally forcing another man to have sex against his will and impregnating a woman against his will, he could've used his miraculous powers to artificially inseminate the woman, as he supposedly did with others? He didn't have to force this man to implant his sperm into another woman against his will.

And you claim that we're free moral agents? Yeah, upon pain of death I see. That's no more freedom than someone giving me the choice of jumping off a bridge or drowning myself.
This is beautiful. I'm looking to see who would side step this.
 
Tpop33, just because sex is not a need for you, doesn't mean it can't be a need for someone else. If you believe Maslow's theory, then everyone's needs are different.

I agree with that, Take caffeine for example, or even nicotine.

My question was based on what the human body actually needs to survive, that's all.
 
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