Let Us Reason: The Exodus Story.....
- Thread starter JayRob
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dacontinent
Preacher
Try the film Search for Mt. Sinai: Mountain of Fire for a little information.
JayRob
TigaPaw
If you don't mind, please post the archaeological findings. It's difficult for me to find the film. Thanks in advance.
JayRob
TigaPaw
I'll let you figure it out first.
dacontinent
Preacher
Someone actually put segments of the video on YouTube. Search for "Mountain Of Fire - The Search For The True Mount Sinai " submitted by shannonanamon. You can watch all 5 segments consecutively.
Draw your own conclusions.
Dr H..
Active Member
Here we go again!
JR, because the absence of proof is not proof of absence. What are you looking for, a CD produced by Moses tha can be purchases at your local CD Store or do you want it to be on Pay Per View.
On this same topic {a few months ago} I posted wheels from Chariots, bones and other artifacts that were discovered in the area archologist say the reed sea crossing occured. No what do you want a play-by-play from Aaron or God.
JR, because the absence of proof is not proof of absence. What are you looking for, a CD produced by Moses tha can be purchases at your local CD Store or do you want it to be on Pay Per View.
On this same topic {a few months ago} I posted wheels from Chariots, bones and other artifacts that were discovered in the area archologist say the reed sea crossing occured. No what do you want a play-by-play from Aaron or God.
JayRob
TigaPaw
Dr. H, please. Try telling that to a detective if he's investigating you for murder. Let them tell you that they can convict you with "absence of proof" and see where that will get them with your lawyer.
You can't have 2-3 million people roaming around in a desert for decades and there be no historical evidence of some kind, whether written or hard evidence.
You can't have a book such as the bible making such gigantic claims, yet there be no evidence.
You mean to tell me that you have a world power such as Egypt was at the time, being brought to it's knees by a ragtag group of former slaves and their god, yet NO one bothered to record it?!
The many enemy nations Egypt had, yet not one of those nations recorded such a gigantic loss by their hated enemy?! Of the many historical documents unearthed by archaeologists from cultures and nations existing in that part of the world, there's no evidence that an exodus ever occurred.
If a book is making such gigantic claims of a river splitting so that 2-3 million folks could cross it, there should be SOME evidence to support such a gigantic claim.
Asking logical thinking and educated people to believe such a story requires more than mere "hearsay".
As far as the information you supposedly posted, if you don't mind, post it again so I can gloss over it.
If it's information from the person you may have mentioned a few months ago, the man who presented the information wasn't even an archaeologist and was proven to be a fraud. So in essence, you may have posted some information on the subject, however the information wasn't accurate.
Anyhow, go ahead and post that info, especially the part about WHEELS (plural) from chariots, bones and other artifacts proven to be related to the exodus. Speaking of archaeologists, you may have just dug yourself in a deep hole (no pun intended).
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jsupop33
Loyalty & Respect
I watched it. Thanks DAC.
dacontinent
Preacher
Glad to help. I have my own copy that I picked up in a cut-out rack. Really interesting stuff.
JayRob
TigaPaw
My question is, if seasoned and experienced archaeologists confirm no such thing as a Red Sea crossing, how can the producers of this film have evidence? That's the point, they don't, yet you have "educated" folks believing in lies just so they find anything shred of evidence to support their religion.
Did the Red Sea Part? No Evidence, Archaeologists Say
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/03/world/africa/03exodus.html
That prompted a reporter to ask about the Exodus, and if the new evidence was linked in any way to the story of Passover. The archaeological discoveries roughly coincided with the timing of the Israelites’ biblical flight from Egypt and the 40 years of wandering the desert in search of the Promised Land.
“Really, it’s a myth,†Dr. Hawass said of the story of the Exodus, as he stood at the foot of a wall built during what is called the New Kingdom.
Egypt is one of the world’s primary warehouses of ancient history. People here joke that wherever you stick a shovel in the ground you find antiquities. When workers built a sewage system in the downtown Cairo neighborhood of Dokki, they accidentally scattered shards of Roman pottery. In the middle-class neighborhood of Heliopolis, tombs have been discovered beneath homes.
But Egypt is also a spiritual center, where for centuries men have searched for the meaning of life. Sometimes the two converge, and sometimes the archaeological record confirms the history of the faithful. Often it does not, however, as Dr. Hawass said with detached certainty.
“If they get upset, I don’t care,†Dr. Hawass said. “This is my career as an archaeologist. I should tell them the truth. If the people are upset, that is not my problem.â€
The story of the Exodus is celebrated as the pivotal moment in the creation of the Jewish people. As the Bible tells it, Moses was born the son of a Jewish slave, who cast him into the Nile in a basket so the baby could escape being killed by the pharaoh. He was saved by the pharaoh’s daughter, raised in the royal court, discovered his Jewish roots and, with divine help, led the Jewish people to freedom. Moses is said to have ascended Mt. Sinai, where God appeared in a burning bush and Moses received the Ten Commandments.
In Egypt today, visitors to Mount Sinai are sometimes shown a bush by tour guides and told it is the actual bush that burned before Moses.
But archaeologists who have worked here have never turned up evidence to support the account in the Bible, and there is only one archaeological find that even suggests the Jews were ever in Egypt. Books have been written on the topic, but the discussion has, for the most part, remained low-key as the empirically minded have tried not to incite the spiritually minded.
“Sometimes as archaeologists we have to say that never happened because there is no historical evidence,†Dr. Hawass said, as he led the journalists across a rutted field of stiff and rocky sand....
But nothing was showing up that might help prove the Old Testament story of Moses and the Israelites fleeing Egypt, or wandering in the desert. Dr. Hawass said he was not surprised, given the lack of archaeological evidence to date.... END
Again, I ask, if the archaeologists, who've been digging for more than a decade, have found no evidence, where are the people in this film getting it from? What historical documents did they produce? What archaeological findings did they produce?
Did the Red Sea Part? No Evidence, Archaeologists Say
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/04/03/world/africa/03exodus.html
That prompted a reporter to ask about the Exodus, and if the new evidence was linked in any way to the story of Passover. The archaeological discoveries roughly coincided with the timing of the Israelites’ biblical flight from Egypt and the 40 years of wandering the desert in search of the Promised Land.
“Really, it’s a myth,†Dr. Hawass said of the story of the Exodus, as he stood at the foot of a wall built during what is called the New Kingdom.
Egypt is one of the world’s primary warehouses of ancient history. People here joke that wherever you stick a shovel in the ground you find antiquities. When workers built a sewage system in the downtown Cairo neighborhood of Dokki, they accidentally scattered shards of Roman pottery. In the middle-class neighborhood of Heliopolis, tombs have been discovered beneath homes.
But Egypt is also a spiritual center, where for centuries men have searched for the meaning of life. Sometimes the two converge, and sometimes the archaeological record confirms the history of the faithful. Often it does not, however, as Dr. Hawass said with detached certainty.
“If they get upset, I don’t care,†Dr. Hawass said. “This is my career as an archaeologist. I should tell them the truth. If the people are upset, that is not my problem.â€
The story of the Exodus is celebrated as the pivotal moment in the creation of the Jewish people. As the Bible tells it, Moses was born the son of a Jewish slave, who cast him into the Nile in a basket so the baby could escape being killed by the pharaoh. He was saved by the pharaoh’s daughter, raised in the royal court, discovered his Jewish roots and, with divine help, led the Jewish people to freedom. Moses is said to have ascended Mt. Sinai, where God appeared in a burning bush and Moses received the Ten Commandments.
In Egypt today, visitors to Mount Sinai are sometimes shown a bush by tour guides and told it is the actual bush that burned before Moses.
But archaeologists who have worked here have never turned up evidence to support the account in the Bible, and there is only one archaeological find that even suggests the Jews were ever in Egypt. Books have been written on the topic, but the discussion has, for the most part, remained low-key as the empirically minded have tried not to incite the spiritually minded.
“Sometimes as archaeologists we have to say that never happened because there is no historical evidence,†Dr. Hawass said, as he led the journalists across a rutted field of stiff and rocky sand....
But nothing was showing up that might help prove the Old Testament story of Moses and the Israelites fleeing Egypt, or wandering in the desert. Dr. Hawass said he was not surprised, given the lack of archaeological evidence to date.... END
Again, I ask, if the archaeologists, who've been digging for more than a decade, have found no evidence, where are the people in this film getting it from? What historical documents did they produce? What archaeological findings did they produce?
JayRob
TigaPaw
Just researched the two guys mentioned in the film. Just as I figured, they're linked to Ron Wyatt who was found to be a fraud and not an archaeologist and has no credentials or credibility in the world of archaeology.
These 2 guys in the film stole all their information from Jim Irwin, who was given all of this info by Ron Wyatt! Jim Irwin was an astronaut. Irwin then gave it all to Bob Cornuke, an ex cop and Larry Williams the ex-stock trader!
SO WE HAVE AN EX-COP AND STOCK TRADER DOING ARCHAEOLOGY WORK?! LOL!!
I posted info on this Wyatt fellow a few months back when Royal Blue was trying to show me one of his youtube video movies about Sodom and Gomorrah. The dude is a fraud. STUDY THE ENTIRE WEBSITE. I listed a few of the comments about this Wyatt fellow.
-------------
See info on Ron Wyatt at: http://ldolphin.org/wyatt.html
--"Ron Wyatt, who has been telling his tales of discovering Noah's Ark, the chariots of Pharaoh, the pillars of Solomon, the true Mt. Sinai, the tomb of the Patriarchs, Sodom & Gomorrah, the place of Christ's crucifixion, and the Ark of the Covenant for many years, has been documented as an archaeological fraud. Both former "friends" as well as professional archaeologists in his own denomination (Seventh- Day Adventist) have published detailed refutations of all of his "discoveries." Rather than go into such details here we refer those interested in the documentation against Wyatt to request a free packet of papers by archaeologists in Wyatt's denomination from: Dr. David Merling, Associate Director & Curator, Institute of Archaeology, Horn Archaeological Museum, Andrews University, Berrien Springs, MI 49104-0990."
--Dear Mr. Searcy
Mr. Ron Wyatt is neither an archaeologist nor has he ever carried out a legally licensed excavation in Israel or Jerusalem. In order to excavate one must have at least a BA in archaeology which he does not possess despite his claims to the contrary. We are aware of his claims which border on the absurd as they have no scientific basis whatsoever nor have they ever been published in a professional journal. They fall into the category of trash which one finds in tabloids such as the National Enquirer, Sun etc. It's amazing that anyone would believe them. Furthermore, he has been thoroughly discredited by various Christian organizations such as Creation Research in Calif. For the latest on his "discoveries" I suggest going into the WWW (use Vista) someone called Tentmaker decided to do an expose of his various claims. Here you will find the truth, which is more amazing that his (RW) fictions.
Shalom
Joe Zias
Curator of Anthropology/Archaeology
Israel Antiquities Authority
POB 586, Jerusalem
Tel. 972 2 292624 Ê
-------------------------
In addition to the above, 2-3 million Israelites roamed the desert for 40 years. The average lifespan at that time was no more than 45 years. Thus around 400,000 Israelites died on that trip. Where are the graves, where are the bones?
The desert dry sand is perfect for preserving stuff. NOTHING WAS EVER FOUND. Not a single trincket. Exodus is NONSENSE.
Another anomaly in the video. There is a picture of the men at high tide in waist deep water......why would an entire army drown in such shallow water?
These 2 guys in the film stole all their information from Jim Irwin, who was given all of this info by Ron Wyatt! Jim Irwin was an astronaut. Irwin then gave it all to Bob Cornuke, an ex cop and Larry Williams the ex-stock trader!
SO WE HAVE AN EX-COP AND STOCK TRADER DOING ARCHAEOLOGY WORK?! LOL!!
I posted info on this Wyatt fellow a few months back when Royal Blue was trying to show me one of his youtube video movies about Sodom and Gomorrah. The dude is a fraud. STUDY THE ENTIRE WEBSITE. I listed a few of the comments about this Wyatt fellow.
-------------
See info on Ron Wyatt at: http://ldolphin.org/wyatt.html
--"Ron Wyatt, who has been telling his tales of discovering Noah's Ark, the chariots of Pharaoh, the pillars of Solomon, the true Mt. Sinai, the tomb of the Patriarchs, Sodom & Gomorrah, the place of Christ's crucifixion, and the Ark of the Covenant for many years, has been documented as an archaeological fraud. Both former "friends" as well as professional archaeologists in his own denomination (Seventh- Day Adventist) have published detailed refutations of all of his "discoveries." Rather than go into such details here we refer those interested in the documentation against Wyatt to request a free packet of papers by archaeologists in Wyatt's denomination from: Dr. David Merling, Associate Director & Curator, Institute of Archaeology, Horn Archaeological Museum, Andrews University, Berrien Springs, MI 49104-0990."
--Dear Mr. Searcy
Mr. Ron Wyatt is neither an archaeologist nor has he ever carried out a legally licensed excavation in Israel or Jerusalem. In order to excavate one must have at least a BA in archaeology which he does not possess despite his claims to the contrary. We are aware of his claims which border on the absurd as they have no scientific basis whatsoever nor have they ever been published in a professional journal. They fall into the category of trash which one finds in tabloids such as the National Enquirer, Sun etc. It's amazing that anyone would believe them. Furthermore, he has been thoroughly discredited by various Christian organizations such as Creation Research in Calif. For the latest on his "discoveries" I suggest going into the WWW (use Vista) someone called Tentmaker decided to do an expose of his various claims. Here you will find the truth, which is more amazing that his (RW) fictions.
Shalom
Joe Zias
Curator of Anthropology/Archaeology
Israel Antiquities Authority
POB 586, Jerusalem
Tel. 972 2 292624 Ê
-------------------------
In addition to the above, 2-3 million Israelites roamed the desert for 40 years. The average lifespan at that time was no more than 45 years. Thus around 400,000 Israelites died on that trip. Where are the graves, where are the bones?
The desert dry sand is perfect for preserving stuff. NOTHING WAS EVER FOUND. Not a single trincket. Exodus is NONSENSE.
Another anomaly in the video. There is a picture of the men at high tide in waist deep water......why would an entire army drown in such shallow water?
JayRob
TigaPaw
Here's more info bringing into question the Mt. Sinai story.....
http://www.bibleandscience.com/archaeology/exodusgold.htm
Howard Blum (journalist) has written the book The Gold of the Exodus about the the adventures of Bob Cornuke's and Larry Williams' quest for Mt. Sinai. Bob a former cop believes that Mt. Sinai is Jabal al Lawz in Saudi Arabia. In 1988 Bob along with Larry (a Wall Street millionaire) illegally entered Saudi Arabia to search for Mt. Sinai. Bob also believes in a different route for the exodus. He thinks that Moses crossed the Red Sea from the tip of the Sinai Peninsula across the gulf of Aqaba to Saudi Arabia. He thinks that Moses buried huge amounts of gold taken from the Egyptians at Jabel al Lawz. You can see a picture of Jabal al Lawz and his purposed route of the exodus at his web site:Mt Sinai - the Evidence - the Photographs.
First of all these amazing claims are not backed up by any solid evidence. If he has found a chariot wheel then let the experts examine it to see if it is Egyptian and what time it dates to. A wheel does not prove anything. There are also many altars and high places in the Middle East. An altar must be examined for what kind it is and time of use. More than a few large rock piles and rock carving are needed to prove that Jabal al Lawz is Mt. Sinai. Rock piles and carvings can be found all over the Sinai and Saudi Arabian deserts.
Cornuke claims that Jabal al Lawz is burnt at the top by the fire of God. It is true that the rocks on top are dark, but this is because they are basalt rocks with intrusive dikes of lighter color rocks, not because fire burnt them. The darkened mountain top may have given rise to the stories of Mt. Sinai.
The amazing claims of Bob Cornuke demand amazing proofs which are sorely lacking in the book the Gold of the Exodus. No serious archaeologist would make these claims without proof (see BAR July/August 1999 Vol.25:4, 54-56). See Did Amateur Archaeologists Find the Real Mt. Sinai?
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This just shows that people need to be mighty careful before they run off believing anything they see and hear simply because it fits their belief system. These two men are more frauds than that Wyatt fellow.
Dark rocks prove that god caused fire to come down?! WOW!! It's interesting that the men didn't mention the fact that the rocks are basalt rocks, which are dark and are found along the ocean crusts. I guess the OT god made his appearance along ocean crusts as well, thus turning those rocks dark as well.
Here's a photo of a basalt rock:
http://www.bibleandscience.com/archaeology/exodusgold.htm
Howard Blum (journalist) has written the book The Gold of the Exodus about the the adventures of Bob Cornuke's and Larry Williams' quest for Mt. Sinai. Bob a former cop believes that Mt. Sinai is Jabal al Lawz in Saudi Arabia. In 1988 Bob along with Larry (a Wall Street millionaire) illegally entered Saudi Arabia to search for Mt. Sinai. Bob also believes in a different route for the exodus. He thinks that Moses crossed the Red Sea from the tip of the Sinai Peninsula across the gulf of Aqaba to Saudi Arabia. He thinks that Moses buried huge amounts of gold taken from the Egyptians at Jabel al Lawz. You can see a picture of Jabal al Lawz and his purposed route of the exodus at his web site:Mt Sinai - the Evidence - the Photographs.
First of all these amazing claims are not backed up by any solid evidence. If he has found a chariot wheel then let the experts examine it to see if it is Egyptian and what time it dates to. A wheel does not prove anything. There are also many altars and high places in the Middle East. An altar must be examined for what kind it is and time of use. More than a few large rock piles and rock carving are needed to prove that Jabal al Lawz is Mt. Sinai. Rock piles and carvings can be found all over the Sinai and Saudi Arabian deserts.
Cornuke claims that Jabal al Lawz is burnt at the top by the fire of God. It is true that the rocks on top are dark, but this is because they are basalt rocks with intrusive dikes of lighter color rocks, not because fire burnt them. The darkened mountain top may have given rise to the stories of Mt. Sinai.
The amazing claims of Bob Cornuke demand amazing proofs which are sorely lacking in the book the Gold of the Exodus. No serious archaeologist would make these claims without proof (see BAR July/August 1999 Vol.25:4, 54-56). See Did Amateur Archaeologists Find the Real Mt. Sinai?
------------
This just shows that people need to be mighty careful before they run off believing anything they see and hear simply because it fits their belief system. These two men are more frauds than that Wyatt fellow.
Dark rocks prove that god caused fire to come down?! WOW!! It's interesting that the men didn't mention the fact that the rocks are basalt rocks, which are dark and are found along the ocean crusts. I guess the OT god made his appearance along ocean crusts as well, thus turning those rocks dark as well.
Here's a photo of a basalt rock:
JayRob
TigaPaw
Here's more info on this Cornuke film narrator and how he's linked to Ron Wyatt:
http://www.scam.com/showthread.php?t=123962
Cornuke's book, In Search of the Mountain of God, claimed he was the original researcher of the biblical match of Biblical Mount Sinai to Jabal al-Lawz in Saudi Arabia. Earlier, however, in 1984, Ron Wyatt had already claimed to be the discoverer of the Biblical Mount Sinai at Jabal al-Lawz[8], and in 2002 Randall Styx noted that Harry St. John Philby claimed such evidence in his 1957 book The Land of Midian[8]
He holds a Masters of Arts in Biblical Studies and a Ph.D. in Bible and Theology, both from the unaccredited Louisiana Baptist University.[2][3] He has been a police officer in Costa Mesa, California. He is the author of six books about his explorations over the last 20 years. Archaeologists and other critics characterize his approach of using of the Bible as a literal guide for his explorations as pseudoarchaeology.
Cornuke is travel guide/business partners with Chuck Missler.[7] Cornuke received credits at Missler's unaccredited Koinonia Institute, which were transferable to the unaccredited Louisiana Baptist University.[3] Missler is a 1999 graduate of Louisiana Baptist University, and currently Cornuke in Colorado, a 2005 graduate, and Missler in Idaho are professors at the "school."
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If folks want to put their confidence in such a person as Bob Cornuke, who has little to no credentials, that's up to them. At least they know a little more about him than they did before.
http://www.scam.com/showthread.php?t=123962
Cornuke's book, In Search of the Mountain of God, claimed he was the original researcher of the biblical match of Biblical Mount Sinai to Jabal al-Lawz in Saudi Arabia. Earlier, however, in 1984, Ron Wyatt had already claimed to be the discoverer of the Biblical Mount Sinai at Jabal al-Lawz[8], and in 2002 Randall Styx noted that Harry St. John Philby claimed such evidence in his 1957 book The Land of Midian[8]
He holds a Masters of Arts in Biblical Studies and a Ph.D. in Bible and Theology, both from the unaccredited Louisiana Baptist University.[2][3] He has been a police officer in Costa Mesa, California. He is the author of six books about his explorations over the last 20 years. Archaeologists and other critics characterize his approach of using of the Bible as a literal guide for his explorations as pseudoarchaeology.
Cornuke is travel guide/business partners with Chuck Missler.[7] Cornuke received credits at Missler's unaccredited Koinonia Institute, which were transferable to the unaccredited Louisiana Baptist University.[3] Missler is a 1999 graduate of Louisiana Baptist University, and currently Cornuke in Colorado, a 2005 graduate, and Missler in Idaho are professors at the "school."
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If folks want to put their confidence in such a person as Bob Cornuke, who has little to no credentials, that's up to them. At least they know a little more about him than they did before.
dacontinent
Preacher
I don't REMEMBER hearing these guys claim to be archeologists. They just showed what they found from their study, research, and exploration.
The Saudi's were already guarding the site for some reason. It's my guess that their level of security has been increased by now, making it even harder for inquisitive minds to get there.
As for the Red Sea crossing...4000+ years have passed. There might still be evidence there or it could have been carted off by now. I hope that things like this provoke true archeologists to pursue discovery.
Please note that the lack of accreditation of a school nor certification of a searcher have anything to do with their ability to find anything.
The Saudi's were already guarding the site for some reason. It's my guess that their level of security has been increased by now, making it even harder for inquisitive minds to get there.
As for the Red Sea crossing...4000+ years have passed. There might still be evidence there or it could have been carted off by now. I hope that things like this provoke true archeologists to pursue discovery.
Please note that the lack of accreditation of a school nor certification of a searcher have anything to do with their ability to find anything.
JayRob
TigaPaw
dacontinent [QUOTE said:
They're doing amateur work where people attribute authenticity to their work, especially religious folks trying to grab at anything to support biblical stories.
They're guarding it from amateurs. Accredited and qualified researchers still have access.
As of now, there's nothing to support any exodus. No affirmed archaeologist has found anything credible to support the theory of any exodus anywhere. No bones, no chariots, no chariot wheels, no nothing, yet people still go on hoping against hope.
It has the ability to prove that WHAT they find is actually what they say it is because by utilizing their accredited skills, what they find can actually be verified.
The average person wouldn't want a doctor from an unaccredited school doing heart surgery on them when they could get more quality care from a doctor from an accredited institution.
These men could've saved a lot of people from the embarassment of believing something that's not true at all. Many people falsely took what they said on the video at face value. Some still do, but the bottom line is that they've been sold information that's neither accurate nor proven.
It truly amazes me that folks throw out logic just to try and support false theories that have no supporting evidence.
The video is full of holes, even an amateur researcher could point out, like myself, yet so-called educated folks easily become duped because they want so bad for there to be proof of an imaginary exodus.
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dacontinent
Preacher
A definite maybe. Others preceded this team and came to the same or similar conclusion. I would love to hear what archeologists have to say after their own investigation.
Jaguar Diehard
Active Member
Jesus observed Passover. Enough for me....
JayRob
TigaPaw
Who are those others and what were their conclusions?
JayRob
TigaPaw
That's your choice, but if I told you to prove it, as your bible commands you to PROVE ALL THINGS, you couldn't do it.
Another thing you couldn't prove is that Jesus was said to be three days and three nights in the grave, from Friday sunset to early Sunday morning. It was stated that if he wasn't in the grave three days and three nights, he WASN'T THE MESSIAH.
Will someone....anyone, PLEASE tell me how FRIDAY SUNSET TO EARLY SUNDAY MORNING adds up to be THREE days and THREE nights in the grave?
And while you're at it, please tell me why Jesus' followers no longer observe a Passover, but observe a pagan day called Easter? If it was good enough for Jesus, why don't the vast majority of his believers follow his example and observe the Passover as he did?
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dacontinent
Preacher
Start with the things your reference in Post #14 and go from there.
JayRob
TigaPaw
Your "others" that you mentioned, seemed to imply that there were certified and accredited archaeologists who preceded this Cornuke person and discovered a real Mt. Sinai. If you're depending on the research of the individuals I mentioned in post #14, then your foundation in trying to verify a real Mt. Sinai is made of quick sand, as is shown in the same post.
JayRob
TigaPaw
I've already found this "Jesus" you speak of. This "Jesus" you speak of can be found in mythical men like Horus, Zeus, Kristna and many others who preceded him by hundreds of years. After all, he's merely the same character as the aforementioned. In short, they're all one and the same, whether you choose to believe it or not. I challenge anyone to prove otherwise, using verified extrabiblical documentation.
dacontinent
Preacher
Then start by reading Antiquities of the Jews, Books 2 & 3, written 2000 years ago.
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