ANGELS


ROYAL BLUE said:
As you can see, my extremely disturbing words are nothing compared to His.
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Matthew 10:34-41 is not disturbing, but inspired.

Below lies the Great DISTURBANCE which is neither inspired nor properly interpreted from that which is Inspired. Please don't mix Facts (God's Inspired Word) with Leaven (Your Interpretation).

ROYAL BLUE said:
Our heavenly body is also called a spiritual body. When Christ resurrected He was in His spiritual body. This is why He made it clear to those who were listenening by saying, a spirit does not have flesh and blood. When we die we are finish with the flesh. Our heavenly body is inside of our earthly body and it steps out of the earthly body and into a heavenly demension. This is why we as humans can't see God and the angels without God allowing us to. We are in the flesh and it takes divine intervention to make this happen. Listen to those who are on their death bed talk and you will understand what I'm saying. They see things we can because they are in transition.
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illinijag said:
Matthew 10:34-41 is not disturbing, but inspired.

Below lies the Great DISTURBANCE which is neither inspired nor properly interpreted from that which is Inspired. Please don't mix Facts (God's Inspired Word) with Leaven (Your Interpretation).
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What part of ashes to ashes and dust to dust don't you understand? Again, when we die we are finish with the flesh body. It may be disturbing to you but its certainly not disturbing to me. Let it go and move on.
 



ROYAL BLUE said:
BTW, there is nothing wrong with learning what happens to the dead and what they see when they cross over to the other side. Remember, they're not actually dead. If you listen to them they're telling you what and who they see. Its a beautiful experience and its a blessing to know when we check out of here we continue to live, on the other side.
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I disagree, because what a person say is just what a person say. Their words are not Inspired (from God) because that book has already been written.
  1. How do we know if they really crossed over?
  2. What do we do with varying interpretation of event during this Crossover?
  3. What if their interpretation differ from Scripture?
What a person believe (that including myself) means nothing if it is not supported by scripture. We as Christians must make the decision to Follow God's words and only God's word. To do otherwise will eventually lead us away from Biblical facts to the land of Fables, old wives tales and the ways of Tradition.

Remember, A Little Leaven....(1 Corinthians 5:6)
 
?Remember, they're not actually dead?.

Then what are they? Life, the breath of life has left the body. So, are you saying that when Jesus died on the cross he was not ?really dead?? When the breath of life, leave this physical body you are dead, according to Matthew 27:35, 50 and other scriptures he died on the cross.

For to this end Christ both died, and rose, and revived, that he might be Lord both of the dead and living. Romans 14:9

For I delivered unto you first of all that which I also received, how that Christ died for our sins according to the scriptures; 1 Corinthians 15:3

You are contradicting yourself, because in your previous statement you said ?there is nothing wrong with learning what happens to the dead? and ?Again, when we die we are finish with the flesh body.?

I can tell you what happens to them, read the story of Lazarus and the rich man.

The physical body is dead, now the spirit lives in which God ?loaned us? continues to live.

?Our heavenly body is also called a spiritual body? What is the Book, Chapter and verse? Referencing, 1 Corinthians Chapter 15, that was previously mentioned.

?There are celestial bodies and there are terrestrial bodies; but the glory of the celestial is one, and the glory of the terrestrial is another. (1 Corinthians 15:40 RSV)?

Paul is saying, "celestial bodies" are heavenly bodies. Paul goes on to list them -- the sun, the moon and the stars. There are also "terrestrial bodies," which are earthly bodies. He has already said what they are -- men, animals, birds, and fish.

The point he makes is that there is a distinct and planned difference between heavenly bodies and earthly bodies (this goes back to the creation ? God created ?bara'? the heaven and earth and made / make `asah ). Heavenly bodies shine. That is their function -- to shine, to have a glory about them. Earthly bodies, however, do not shine: They function, they articulate and coordinate in various says. That is the glory of an earthly body. ?Think? Heavenly bodies move in limitless space, which we measure in light years, but earthly bodies are limited.

Are you saying the bodies in which we are living in now, is our spiritual body, that will stand before Christ (those that are saved) or God (those that are lost).

According to Paul, "celestial bodies" and heavenly bodies are the same, they do not have flesh and blood. Terrestrial bodies have flesh and blood, therefore they are not the same. We cannot co-exist in two bodies as pointed out in the teachings of Paul.

But, this old corruptible body will be changed in the twinkling of an eye ? long enough to receive ?my reward? ? to stand in judgment.

RB, is it possible that you are attempting to explain "somethng" but, you just can't put it in the right words?
 
Dr H.. said:
RB, is it possible that you are attempting to explain "somethng" but, you just can't put it in the right words?
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Could it be that you're assuming I think one way and you're not asking the right questions? I will explain this again. When we die on earth we are finish with the flesh body and it will be no more.........its dead. Our soul does not die because it immediately steps into its spiritually body, when its finished with the flesh body. Again, you have two bodies and Paul makes it very clear how they operate. I will go a step further to say Jesus made it clear how they operate.

Matthew 17:1 "And after six days Jesus taketh Peter, James, and John his brother, and bringeth them up into an high mountain apart,"

Matthew 17:2 "And was transfigured(CHANGED) before them: and His face did shine as the sun, and His raiment was white as the light."

So these disciples watched as these three stood in their supernatural bodies, showing that Christ was supernatural. This shows the body that Christ would posses after the crucifixion, and after the tomb. Jesus allowed this time of the transfiguration to happen, so people would not run around saying that Christ did not rise from the tomb. He did it in this manner to where there would be no doubt to where His body was. It was changed.
 
Transfiguration-metamorphoō(G3339)

1) to change into another form, to transform, to transfigure

a) Christ appearance was changed and was resplendent with divine brightness on the mount of transfiguration

Matthew 17:3 "And, behold, there appeared unto them Moses and Elias talking with Him."

A child can understand that Christ, Moses, and Elias are in their spiritual bodies. The spiritual body is the body your soul takes on when you die in the flesh. Your soul never stops living and it immediately takes the form of the spiritual body. This is why scripture says not to fear he who can destroy your flesh body but He(God) who can destroy flesh and soul.

1Cr 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,

1Cr 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
 
I Thessalonians 4:13; "But I would not have you to be ignorant, brethren, concerning them which are asleep [dead], that ye sorrow not, even as others which have no hope."

I Thessalonians 4:14; "For if we believe that Jesus died and rose again, even so them also which sleep [die physical death] in Jesus will God bring with him."

The dead are not in a hole in the ground but they are with our heavenly Father. Their flesh body is dead and in the ground but the soul took on a new body when the flesh body died.
 
RB

Stop flip flopping, you will make a statement and once someone correct you, you then come back a "paraphrase" others comments.

The dead are not in a hole in the ground but they are with our heavenly Father.
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So everyone that dies are now with God in heaven?
 
Dr H.. said:
RB
So everyone that dies are now with God in heaven?
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Lets go to scripture and find out.

Luke 16:22 "And it came to pass, that the beggar died, and was carried by the angels into Abraham's bosom the rich man also died, and was buried;"

Luke 16:23 "And in hell he lift up his eyes, being in torments(EMOTIONALLY), and seeth Abraham afar off, and Lazarus in his bosom."

Luke 16:24 "And he cried(WITH DISGRACE) and said, `Father Abraham, have mercy on me, and send Lazarus, that he may dip the tip of his finger in water, and cool my tongue; for I am tormented(EMOTIONALLY) in this flame.' "

Luke 16:25 "But Abraham said, Son, remember that thou in thy lifetime receivest thy good things, and likewise Lazarus evil things: but now he is comforted, and thou art tormented."

Luke 16:26 "And beside all this, between us and you there is a great gulf fixed: so that they which would pass from hence to you cannot; neither can they pass to us, that would come from thence.' "

Luke 16:27 "Then he said, `I pray thee therefore, father, that thou wouldest send him to my father's house:"

Luke 16:28 "For I have five brethren; that he may testify unto them, lest they also come into this place of torment.' "

Luke 16:29 "Abraham saith unto him, `They have Moses and the prophets; let them hear them.' "

Luke 16:30 "And he said, `Nay, father Abraham: but if one went unto them from the dead, they will repent.' "

Luke 16:31 "And he said unto him, `If they hear not Moses and the prophets, neither will they be persuaded, though one rose from the dead.' "
 
THIS IS AN IN DEPTH STUDY FYI!

This space is talked about by the prophet Ezra, or in the Greek "Esdras" in the Apocrypha, in the II Esdras 7:78-87. Though it is rejected in our bibles today, it was in the original king James version of 1611, until the American and British Bible societies removed it. It interfered with some of their traditions, and thus had to go. But it was revealed to Ezra by God.

II Esdras 7:78-80 "For about death, the teaching is: When the final sentence goes forth from the Most High that a man is to die, when the soul departs from the body to return again to him who gave it, first of all it prays to the glory of the Most High; if it was one of those who scorned and did not observe the way of the Most High, and of those who have despised his law, and of those who hate those who fear God, such spirits shall not enter dwellings but wander about thence forth in torment, always grieving and sad, in seven ways."

This means that when you first get to heaven and see the throne of God, it draws praise and glorifying the name of God. But to those that were like the rich man in Jesus parable, after they see what they have done while in their flesh body, it will send them directly to this place of torments, where there is nothing but grief and sadness on the other side of the gulf. So now it gives the seven ways to get to this place of grief.
 
II Esdras 7:81-87 "The first way is that they have scorned the Law of the Most High. The second way is that they can no longer make a good repentance, so that they may live. The third way is that they will see the reward destined for those who have believed the agreements of the Most High. The fourth way is that they will consider the torment destined for them in the last days. The fifth way is that they will see that the dwelling-places of the others are guarded by angels in profound silence. The sixth way is that they will see that some of them will pass over to be tormented henceforth. The seventh way, which is worse than all the ways that have been mentioned, is that they will waste away in shame and be consumed in disgrace, and wither with fear, at seeing the glory of the Most High before whom they sinned while they lived, and before whom they are destined to be judged in the last times."

These are the seven ways and seven things that will be observed and cannot be changed prior to the judgment, and final destruction of those soul that reject our heavenly Father, the "Most High". So is there a burning hell? Yes, that burning hell does not consume though until after the great white throne judgment, at the end of the Millennium age following the seventh trump. Many of those across the gulf at this time, did not have a chance to hear the Word of God, because there were not teachers of the truth. Some were taken in innocence, or for one reason or another did not have the chance to repent. Those souls will be taught in the Millennium age. However until that time comes, and this day of grace still exists, it is impossible to travel across this gulf spoken of in this verse. Nobody is sleeping in the ground at death, but they all are very much in God's presence in heaven. http://www.theseason.org/luke/luke16.htm
 
As you can see, Christ told a true story of an event that had just taken place while He walked the earth. Christ gave us an in depth look at what happens to those who make it and those who don't. There are two sides to heaven. There is a bad side and a good side. Neither side can cross one another, and those on the wrong side torment themselves with embarrassment and shame because they know they didn't make it.......that simple.
 
I read most of the Apocrypha writings and found them to be very thought provoking and entertaining. At best, they are questionable historical writings put together by the independent thoughts of man (i.e. NOT GOD-BREATHED). Thus, the Apocrypha writings are not inspired and should not be used for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness

Romans 3:1-2
  • What advantage then hath the Jew? or what profit is there of circumcision?
  • Much every way: chiefly, because that unto them were committed the oracles of God.

The oracles of God (OT scriptures) given to the Jews were written in Aramaic and Hebrew, not Greek.

The Protestant Church rejects the apocrypha as being inspired, as do the Jews, but in 1546 the Roman Catholic Church officially declared some of the apocryphal books to belong to the canon of scripture because these book supports their belief of Salvation by works and Purgatory.

Jesus references the Old Testament ( The Law, the Prophets, and the Psalms), but never the Apocrypha writings;Neither did any other New Testament writers references the Apocrypha writings.

2 John 1:10-11
  • If there come any unto you, and bring not this doctrine, receive him not into your house, neither bid him God speed:
  • For he that biddeth him God speed is partaker of his evil deeds.


If we use any means to support our view, Are we seeking God?s View?
 



illinijag said:
I read most of the Apocrypha writings and found them to be very thought provoking and entertaining. At best, they are questionable historical writings put together by the independent thoughts of man (i.e. NOT GOD-BREATHED).
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I understand your view, however the American and British societies "REMOVED" the book of ESDRAS from the original king James version of 1611. Why? Some people just don't like what God has to say. Its no different from people removing prayer and bible study from public schools. This is not God's doing but man's. Its no different than people saying there can't be more than one way to heaven. We as Christians know there is only one way to heaven and that's through Christ. We know there are people trying to justify homosexuality with the word, however this is not God's doing. A time will come for those to answer for the removing of all that God established for the saints. Having said that, God purposely set the scripture up whereby its out of order. Why? Read the verses below.

Mat 13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.

Luk 8:10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.


Did you notice "THE KEY WORD" in those verses? The key word is "given." In order for you to understand the mysteries it must be "given" to you by God. It doesn't make you special but blessed. Jesus is telling us they see the scripture but they really don't see it. They hear it but they don't understand it because its confusing.

1Cr 13:2 And though I have [the gift of] prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.

As you can see, the elect is nothing special but we are dependable to God and He rewards us openly. I always tell people, if God "gives" them the understanding of what Satan did in the garden of Eden, then they will have no problem understanding the end. Its impossible to understand the end if the beginning is confusing. The beginning is a mystery to many Christians and their confusion starts with Adam and Eve eating an apple.
 
Early editions of the King James Bible, as well as many other English-language Bibles of the past, including the Wycliffe Bible (1382), the Coverdale Bible (1535), the Great Bible (1539), the Geneva Bible (1560), the Bishop's Bible (1568), the Douay-Rheims Bible (1609), and the Authorized Version (1611), and the German Luther (1545), all contained the Apocrypha, but these books were included for historical reference only, not as additions to the canon of Scripture. Click to read complete article

Psalms 12:6-7
  • The words of the Lord are pure words: as silver tried in a furnace of earth, purified seven times.
  • Thou shalt keep them, O Lord, thou shalt preserve them from this generation for ever.
Based on the above scripture, I believe that God preserved His word through the process of Canonization. I also believe that God used man to do so.

I put my faith in the 66 books of the Bible. I only wish they were enough for You. Please be careful my brother and remember:

That which is not of God ?may leads us away from God?.

Don't be too quick to think that you can't be deceive, for we all are just hanging by a thread, maintained only by the Grace and Mercy of God.

1 Corinthians 10:12. Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

Good Day and God Bless
 
illinijag said:
I put my faith in the 66 books of the Bible. I only wish they were enough for You. Don't be too quick to think that you can't be deceive, for we all are just hanging by a thread, maintained only by the Grace and Mercy of God. 1 Corinthians 10:12. Wherefore let him that thinketh he standeth take heed lest he fall.

Good Day and God Bless
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Yes, my faith is in Christ and I trust that the 66 books are enough for me on this earth.

Can Satan or any man deceive me when it comes to the word of God? No! I'm not boasting nor am I being arrogant, however I do know right from wrong. I'm convinced the only way I'll ever be deceived is unless I foolishly/knowingly allow myself to be deceived........I know better.

Eph 6:10 Finally, my brethren, be strong in the Lord, and in the power of his might.

Eph 6:11 Put on the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to stand against the wiles of the devil.

Eph 6:13 Wherefore take unto you the whole armour of God, that ye may be able to withstand in the evil day, and having done all, to stand.

Eph 6:18 Praying always with all prayer and supplication in the Spirit, and watching thereunto with all perseverance and supplication for all saints;

Eph 6:19 And for me, that utterance may be given unto me, that I may open my mouth boldly, to make known the mystery of the gospel,

Eph 6:20 For which I am an ambassador in bonds: that therein I may speak boldly, as I ought to speak.
 
Apaquelypse said:
So did the three of you ever come up with an answer to the question?
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All questions that are not directly answered by God should be sought through the word of God (the Bible). All any man can provide (at best) is their opinion based on their Faith. We must never accept an opinion from man without subjecting it to scripture to form our own faith. In short, we should place faith in God's words not man's (me or others) opinion. For God say:

Romans 14:23. And he that doubteth is damned if he eat, because he eateth not of faith: for whatsoever is not of faith is sin.

However, My opinion to the original question "Are angels male or female". I would say Neither. I am not dogmatic about this at all, but my answer and assumption is based on my faith obtained by the following scriptures:

Matthew 22:30
For in the resurrection they neither marry, nor are given in marriage, but are as the angels of God in heaven.

Mark 12:25 For when they shall rise from the dead, they neither marry, nor are given in marriage; but are as the angels which are in heaven.

Luke 20:34-36
34 And Jesus answering said unto them, The children of this world marry, and are given in marriage:
35 But they which shall be accounted worthy to obtain that world, and the resurrection from the dead, neither marry, nor are given in marriage:
36 Neither can they die any more: for they are equal unto the angels; and are the children of God, being the children of the resurrection.

Again, based on my earthly wisdom. If we will not marry in heaven and have a communal relationship as angles (not given to marriage); why is there a need for different sex (male or female) among angels? Marriage is a picture of our relationship with Christ, the Book of Hosea does an excellent job of explaining this, in addition to showing how we have been unfaithful in our relationship with Christ (God).

FYI: Some questions a better asked first, to God (through His word), then our opinions are atleast based on our understanding/interpretation of and from the most credible source.

Good Day and God Bless.
 
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Apaquelypse said:
So did the three of you ever come up with an answer to the question?
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I chose to trust God's word. His word clearly state that angels are male and God refers to His angels as sons of God. We all know what a son is and what qualifies him to take on the title of a male. In fact, look at what the angel Gabriel means in the bible.

STRONG'S CONCORDANCE(G1043)

Gabriēl

Gabriel = "man of God"
 
Lets go to scripture and find out.
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Abraham's bosom, is not heaven. It's only a typology of heaven. Only their spirit has returned to God, not the soul which will spend eternity in heaven or hell.

"Then shall the dust (physical body) return to the earth as it was: and the spirit (God's spirit) shall return unto God who gave it." (Eccl. 12:7).
 
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