SWAC is Far From the Limelight and Far From Successful


orange tiger

New Member
Far From the Limelight and Far From Successful

By JOHN BRANCH

BIRMINGHAM, Ala., March 9 ? There are 30 N.C.A.A. Division I men's basketball conferences better than the Southwestern Athletic Conference. There are none worse.

That is according to the Ratings Percentage Index, a heartless computation of victories, defeats and strength of schedule. The ranking was silently seconded Thursday by the more than 15,000 empty seats at Birmingham-Jefferson Convention Complex Arena that greeted the start of the conference tournament.

Granted, the quarterfinal game between fourth-seeded Alabama State and fifth-seeded Jackson State began at 10 a.m. But the official attendance of 424 provided a second gauge for where this proud conference of historically black colleges finds itself ? at the bottom of the rankings, if not the underside of March Madness.

On Saturday night, a team will secure the automatic bid to the N.C.A.A. tournament that goes to the SWAC's tournament winner. But even that does not ensure bona fide entry; there is a good chance the SWAC champion will be forced to participate in the tournament's play-in game Tuesday as one of the two lowest-rated teams in the 65-team field, fighting for the right to play the top-ranked team in the country when the full tournament begins Thursday.

The SWAC has participated in the play-in game three of the past four years. It has not won one. The last time a SWAC team won a game in the N.C.A.A. tournament was in 1993, when Southern upset Georgia Tech.

No one is quite sure why the SWAC cannot compete with most of college basketball. They only know the differences.

"Money and tradition," Arkansas-Pine Bluff Coach Van Holt said.

The SWAC is better known for its football heritage ? the conference has produced more than 10 players in the Pro Football Hall of Fame, including Walter Payton and Deacon Jones ? and its show-stopping marching bands than for basketball. The sport has long struggled to attract attention beyond its small gyms and ardent fan bases, and as the popularity of college basketball and the N.C.A.A. tournament continue to grow, the SWAC is scrambling to follow.

"Where other teams select, we have to recruit," Holt said. "The rich get richer and, a lot of times, the poor get poorer."

Teams in the SWAC, like those at other historically black colleges, no longer attract the best black athletes. Some suggest that the talent gap between the SWAC and big-time conferences is stretching wider.

"This ain't SWAC basketball anymore," said Harold Blevins, sitting alone about 15 rows up in the stands watching Grambling State edge Mississippi Valley State. "Until some of the athletes come back to the H.B.C.'s, it's just going to get worse." He was referring to historically black colleges.

Blevins was the Arkansas-Pine Bluff coach from 1996 to 2002, and he was a star player there in the 1960's, playing against the likes of Grambling's Willis Reed. The two men were chosen a year apart by the Knicks in the second round of the N.B.A. draft.

Many of the best athletes in the South used to go to SWAC schools, Blevins said. But those glory days are tinged with bittersweet memories. It was in an era of segregation.

"They didn't have a choice," Blevins said.

Now the best basketball players have plenty of choices. Increasingly, they are choosing to play elsewhere ? generally, places with bigger arenas and more exposure.

"Back in the days when I was growing up, the SWAC had as good of talent as any schools in the state," said the Mississippi Valley State coach, James Green, a Mississippi native.

The league is now filled with quick, high-scoring guards and swingmen, giving it an up-tempo, fan-friendly style. But its big men are not so big. Size and skill, generally, are inversely proportional.

"It's getting tougher now, because the big schools are even recruiting the mediocre big guys," Alabama State Coach Lewis Jackson said. "Because the guys they have are leaving for the pros after one or two years."

But there is still a sense that SWAC basketball is not fairly portrayed by its computer rankings or weak N.C.A.A. tournament history. Although the league's R.P.I. has been last or second-to-last every year since 1999, coaches and administrators suggest that it is because dollars are more enticing than victories.

"In preconference, we have to go out and ? for lack of a better word ? prostitute ourselves to help our budgets," Alcorn State Coach Samuel West said.

Much of the scheduling is profit-driven; most teams play at least five guarantee games, where they are paid from $35,000 to $100,000 to help fill a bigger university's home schedule. Since SWAC colleges do not play Division I football, thus missing out on that financial windfall, they rely heavily on basketball to boost their bottom lines.

By some measures, the SWAC teams play the most difficult nonconference schedules in the country. It undoubtedly has the worst nonconference record ? 8-75 against other Division I teams.

"You don't find too many teams that pick up a check and a win, too," Alabama A&M Coach Vann Pettaway said.

Green, whose first season at Mississippi Valley State ended with Thursday's tournament loss, coached his first nine games on the road. Alcorn State opened with 11 consecutive road games, including matchups at Florida State, Arizona State and Southern California.

While the strength-of-schedule component helps the SWAC's overall R.P.I., the winning percentage destroys it. When the conference schedule begins, and 0-9 teams are playing 2-10 teams, the R.P.I. slides steadily toward the bottom.

Nine of the SWAC's 10 teams ended the regular season with an R.P.I. of 243 or worse, in the bottom 100 of the 334 Division I programs. Southern, the regular-season champion and the only SWAC team with a winning record (16-12 over all, 15-3 in the conference), was the exception, at 144.

The conference is making an effort to encourage its members to think long-term, to build their schedules for on-court success, not merely a financial boost. It wants the colleges to find more midmajor opponents and more home games ? neither of which provide quick fixes for the budget, but could help slowly rebuild the SWAC's basketball reputation.

Once the conference season begins, the SWAC is as feisty and competitive as any; 8 of its 10 teams won between 6 and 11 conference games. And when the conference tournament rolls around, a renewed sense of possibility takes over.

The conference is playing one of the few all-or-nothing tournaments this weekend. One team will go to the N.C.A.A. tournament; the others will not.

On Thursday, the banners were perfectly aligned and the sound of pep bands filled the void of the near-empty arena. A slightly larger and more vocal crowd greeted the evening games as eight teams were whittled to four.

More fans will find their way here Friday and Saturday to see which team will secure the league's automatic bid.

It is not the Big East, but it is intriguing in its own way.

"Everybody at that level is thinking about the N.C.A.A. tournament," Holt said. "We're thinking about just trying to get there ? to get some recognition, and for the paycheck."

http://www.nytimes.com/2006/03/10/sports/ncaabasketball/10swac.html?_r=1&oref=slogin
 

Pretty well written article. The only thing that I disagree with is part of Van Holt (UAPB) comment about "tradition." SWAC basketball does have tradition....
 
I'm sorry, what tradition? A lot of people know about SWAC football teams, but when it comes to basketball people are like ??? I still say we need to move the tournament out of Birmingham. Its a dead city. Lets move it to a big city like Houston or New Orleans. Just a thought.
 
I also think if they stop having the tournament during the hours when everyone is at work then maybe they will see better attended games. Most people are not taking off for a game that early in the day!
 
Just like Coach Holt said "Money and Tradition". I can't feel the excitement here in Pine Bluff for the basketball team. No tailgate parties, no radio promos, No flags flying on the cars. Just dead.
 
kg0586 said:
I'm sorry, what tradition?

I'm sorry you don't have a clue about SWAC basketballs history. Between S.U., Gram & JSU and Alcorn at least 60 players have been drafted by the NBA. SWAC history isn't limited to the last 10 years. Did you know that TXSU won a NAIA national title in basketball? Did you know Grambling won an NAIA national championship in basketball? Do you know how many SWAC players are in the NCAA record books? Do you know the story of Alcorn shocking the college world in the NIT & NCAA? Do you know that Willis Reed played in this league? Did you know that S.U. had 5 starters from one team drafted in the NBA? Some of you all need to do some research. Do you know why the mini dome on S.U. campus was built?...........Tradition is built over years of accolades. The objective now should be to get our programs back up to par and expound on that tradition. Because SWAC alums/ambassadors don't know our history and don't disseminate it to potential college students is part (not all) of the reason we can't get some athletes.
 
Not to mention the number of former players in the SWAC who have gone on to play and coach in the NBA.

Not to mention a SWAC team getting a 13th or 14th seed in 93 and shocking Georgia Tech who had just beaten #1 North Carolina in the ACC tourney.
 
JAGWAR said:
Not to mention the number of former players in the SWAC who have gone on to play and coach in the NBA.

Not to mention a SWAC team getting a 13th or 14th seed in 93 and shocking Georgia Tech who had just beaten #1 North Carolina in the ACC tourney.

It is so many things that the conference has accomplished over the year in basketball. Many people don't know about Alcorn's undefeated season; Many people don't know that a Southernite is the 2nd leading franchise all time score leader for the Chicago Bulls behind Michael Jordon. I think too many SWAC alums have doom and gloom mentalities as opposed to accentuating positives. We have much work to do in order to get back where we need to be, but that does not negate our tradition. Speaking of 93 don't forget about how Jackson State dominating bigger schools and Lindsey Hunter dazzled the world during that regular season, then capped off their season by taking out Big East's UCONN in the NIT. It is just so much tradition until it's not funny. I remember Texas Southern taking Nolan Richardson defending national champ razor backs to the limit in the tourney one year. The last 10 years or so have been a culture shock for some of the older and even younger knowledgeable SWAC fans...the 30+ years prior to this is where the tradition comes from.
 
JROCK said:
Because SWAC alums/ambassadors don't know our history and don't disseminate it to potential college students is part (not all) of the reason we can't get some athletes.
I couldn't have said it better.
 
Jrock,

I have an old video of Alcorn playing Georgetown and Patrick Ewing in an NCAA tourney down to the wire in '83 when Alcorn had Eddie Archie at guard. Hell they only lost by like 5 or 6 points. Another time Alcorn lost to Kansas and then coach Larry Brown on the last play of the game when Alcorn was driving for a winning layup and Kansas goatended the shot and the refs made a no call on it........ and game over. Missisippi Valley led Duke one year at halftime I believe in the late 80's. Am I the only one remembering these games? Those are the kinds of FACTS that need to be included in that article.
 
JROCK said:
It is so many things that the conference has accomplished over the year in basketball. Many people don't know about Alcorn's undefeated season; Many people don't know that a Southernite is the 2nd leading franchise all time score leader for the Chicago Bulls behind Michael Jordon. I think too many SWAC alums have doom and gloom mentalities as opposed to accentuating positives. We have much work to do in order to get back where we need to be, but that does not negate our tradition. Speaking of 93 don't forget about how Jackson State dominating bigger schools and Lindsey Hunter dazzled the world during that regular season, then capped off their season by taking out Big East's UCONN in the NIT. It is just so much tradition until it's not funny. I remember Texas Southern taking Nolan Richardson defending national champ razor backs to the limit in the tourney one year. The last 10 years or so have been a culture shock for some of the older and even younger knowledgeable SWAC fans...the 30+ years prior to this is where the tradition comes from.

That's because we don't have people like you in a leadership role on our campus my friend.
 
The only way to improve our conference RPI is by scheduling and beating the conferences just above us. The time to schedule these teams will be in our pre-season matchups. We don't play enuff games against teams that are our closest neighbors. We matchup better against most of these teams, and it should help with attendance. But I would make it interesting by trying to have the home and home matchups happen within the same week (where possible). Let's take Grambling for an example...I would play the road game on Monday and schedule the home game (against same team) for Saturday.

Grambling: Northwestern (Natchitoches), Centenary (Shreveport) ULM (Monroe), La Tech (Ruston), UNO (New Orleans)

Southern: UNO (New Orleans), ULL (Lafayette), Southeastern (Hammond), McNeese (Lake Charles), LaTech (Ruston)

I only posted the two La Schools as a "for instance". Couldn't the other SWAC schools benefit (attendance, recruiting, chance of winning) Keep maybe 2 "money" games, but these 10 out of conference games plus 20 conference games would make a good schedule. Especially if the OOC record is a winning one.

Your thoughts...
 
JROCK said:
I'm sorry you don't have a clue about SWAC basketballs history. Between S.U., Gram & JSU and Alcorn at least 60 players have been drafted by the NBA. SWAC history isn't limited to the last 10 years. Did you know that TXSU won a NAIA national title in basketball? Did you know Grambling won an NAIA national championship in basketball? Do you know how many SWAC players are in the NCAA record books? Do you know the story of Alcorn shocking the college world in the NIT & NCAA? Do you know that Willis Reed played in this league? Did you know that S.U. had 5 starters from one team drafted in the NBA? Some of you all need to do some research. Do you know why the mini dome on S.U. campus was built?...........Tradition is built over years of accolades. The objective now should be to get our programs back up to par and expound on that tradition. Because SWAC alums/ambassadors don't know our history and don't disseminate it to potential college students is part (not all) of the reason we can't get some athletes.



PV also won a NAIA national title in basketball.
 
Storm96 said:
PV also won a NAIA national title in basketball.

Your are correct.......it is simply so much tradition and I just listed a few things that came off the top of my head. For example, I didn't mention the first round draft choices from the SWAC. Hell Gram's current head basketball coach was one and had a successful career with the Washington Bullets ( i know some may not remember the bullets and only know Wizards. :lol: :emlaugh: )
 

But what about the tradtion of SWAC fans turning out in "droves" for basketball like SWAC fans do for football? Just look at the attendance records at the SWAC tournament now being held in B'ham. They are a far cry from the numbers of a SWAC football game; granted a arena cannot hold 70,000 like the BC,but the numbers could be better. I admire Southern fans for their support of their football team. But just look at it, Southern has won the SWAC title through regular season play;and are on the verge of going to the NCAA,and there are not over 2000 members of the Jag Nation in attendance? Only 1289 folx showed up for the game?? That's why the SWAC is being shown on ESPNU rather the more watched ESPN2,ESPNplus and ESPN classic.

On ESPN today they showed the University Albany ( of New York state,I guess) fans lined up outside of the arena for the championship game with Vermont.
 
8 team tournament, 7 teams with LOSING records, 1 team with a MEDIOCRE WINNING record = no one in the stands. we need to market our indiviual programs better for sure, but when you send you basktball team on the road for 10 straight beatdowns no one is going to respect you. your players are demoralized, your rpi sucks, and you can't recruit b/c prospects look at your 10-18 record and they don't care that you won 10 swac games and finished in the upper half of the conferece. all they care about is yall are a bunch of losers.

once apon a time the swac would have a least 2- 20 win teams every season. when was the last time a swac school won 20 games? was it bama state the first time they won the tourney 5 years ago 22-8? awful. and that's what alot of our fans see. they see teams that can't beat anyone and can't recruit anyone. instead of playing gt, bama, florida, ok, usc, tx and memphis all on the road to open the season, play some DIVISION I teams you can beat(lamar, centenary, ul-monroe, jax state, ut-martin) and get some home and home in your life. those money games are a quick fix w/ long term consequences. i.e. how many money games are you willing to play to give up the pay check and exposure you get from winning a ncaa tourney game like su did as a 14 seed?

once the our teams start winning our cupcake games we'll be able to recruit better, better players will mean better teams, better teams mean more fans in the stands and a real chance to win in the ncaa tourney. it will also mean we can let the southland and southern conference duke it out for the play in game.
 
The SWAC has plenty of basketball tradition. Alcorn State's Davey Whitney was widely known for giving major schools problems. Mississippi Valley took Duke down to the wire when Johnny Dawkins and crew were deemed unstoppable. Others mentioned Southern, Jackson State and Texas Southern feats, so tradition is there it is just not recent.
The lack of skilled big men hurts the SWAC as the article said. There is a reason Southern won the SWAC. It is because they have an inside game. Against Southern, Jackson State had five guys standing around the perimeter taking jump shots because they have no real big man.
SWAC schools also have to do a better job getting students to go to the game. School spirit is often lacking because our schools do a poor job of making the students feel special. A better atmosphere will help recruiting.
Have special events after the basketball games to draw students to the games. Step shows, concerts, talent contests...Have a designate student section close to the court.
But even given the size factor and the atmosphere at our games, SWAC schools often stack up well against the Southland Conference and others that size. Jackson State beat Lipscomb who was a power in its conference. Southern beat Louisiana Tech, a good team in the WAC. Even Alcorn lost by just one point to Sam Houston State on the road and Sam Houston was 22-8 this year. The problem is we don't play many games against these conferences in home and home series. We play on the road against Texas, Oklahoma, Memphis...etc. If the Southland did that they would also have several teams below .500.
So in conclusion, our schools need to encourage the student body to support our programs and cut the number of money games and we will see better results in the future.
 
JROCK said:
Your are correct.......it is simply so much tradition and I just listed a few things that came off the top of my head. For example, I didn't mention the first round draft choices from the SWAC. Hell Gram's current head basketball coach was one and had a successful career with the Washington Bullets ( i know some may not remember the bullets and only know Wizards. :lol: :emlaugh: )

I maybe showing my age. But I remember when Grambling's coach played for the Bullets with Elvin Hayes, Wes Unseld and Bobby Dandridge. He was a very good player.
 
EB said:
I maybe showing my age. But I remember when Grambling's coach played for the Bullets with Elvin Hayes, Wes Unseld and Bobby Dandridge. He was a very good player.


She sir I remember those days. You know back then your center was under 6' 10". They had to play both end of the court. There battles with the Supersonics.
 
You a dayum like PBLA. SU did bring fans. I didnt hear nobody clap in the radio when PB score the 1st point. When SU made an alley oop the arena was rocking. So you can quit lying. He!! Bama St had fans that support their Women team even though their Men wasn't in. I thank Bama St and SU fans for their support for their teams. Mostly the 6th Man Club.
 
Jag-BR said:
You a dayum like PBLA. SU did bring fans. I didnt hear nobody clap in the radio when PB score the 1st point. When SU made an alley oop the arena was rocking. So you can quit lying. He!! Bama St had fans that support their Women team even though their Men wasn't in. I thank Bama St and SU fans for their support for the team. Mostly the 6th Man Club.

You right pine bluff had about 16 fans :scared: (including the players and coaching staff):goof:
 
Jag-BR said:
You a dayum like PBLA. SU did bring fans. I didnt hear nobody clap in the radio when PB score the 1st point.
That's becuase the radio station had poor sound equipment.

But hey, yall get my point. Anyway go ahead and enjoy this victory.

UAPB will be in the Big Dance some day. Hell.. who knows Mickey Dean might the coach then.
 
major095 said:
8 team tournament, 7 teams with LOSING records, 1 team with a MEDIOCRE WINNING record = no one in the stands. we need to market our indiviual programs better for sure, but when you send you basktball team on the road for 10 straight beatdowns no one is going to respect you. your players are demoralized, your rpi sucks, and you can't recruit b/c prospects look at your 10-18 record and they don't care that you won 10 swac games and finished in the upper half of the conferece. all they care about is yall are a bunch of losers.

once apon a time the swac would have a least 2- 20 win teams every season. when was the last time a swac school won 20 games? was it bama state the first time they won the tourney 5 years ago 22-8? awful. and that's what alot of our fans see. they see teams that can't beat anyone and can't recruit anyone. instead of playing gt, bama, florida, ok, usc, tx and memphis all on the road to open the season, play some DIVISION I teams you can beat(lamar, centenary, ul-monroe, jax state, ut-martin) and get some home and home in your life. those money games are a quick fix w/ long term consequences. i.e. how many money games are you willing to play to give up the pay check and exposure you get from winning a ncaa tourney game like su did as a 14 seed?

once the our teams start winning our cupcake games we'll be able to recruit better, better players will mean better teams, better teams mean more fans in the stands and a real chance to win in the ncaa tourney. it will also mean we can let the southland and southern conference duke it out for the play in game.

13th seed. :)
 
Back
Top