Suicide Attacks against our forces

[J C]

Are our forces ready for these types of attack?. Muslim fundamentalists all over the Islamist world are announcing their intentions of using these tactics. What does it mean for our forces occuppying post war Iraq? This operation could be longer and more costly than we anticipated.

 

[Normal1875]

the united states doesnt have the right to occupy another country!
these people are fighting for there home land and dont give a rats azz about being liberated....yes they dont like saddam but to hell about telling us how we should live and who we should consider to lead us and if you disapprove you want yet another regime change.....

I dont know to many amereicans willing to walk up to foreign soldier and blow him self the F up.....over there you have 5 million people with anger and rage in there hearts because the coalition forces are steady killing mothers,fathers,grandathers,children......if you see that everyday caused by bombs falling outta the sky "F" Liberation.....let us liberate ourselves without your help! and if you come to Baghdad you will be faced with resistance!

it was reported today that Iraq was preparing for this time to come as Bush was stepping into office and a lil bit before then......they knew these days were ahead! Also Hamas, Hesbollah, Al- Quaeda and various other islamic fundamentalist were sending operatives over to prepare for the conflict.....

if anything we will have to keep bombing and I dont othere countries are gonna just let us obliterate an Arab Country let alone people of the Islamic faith.

 

[Bartram]

Originally posted by TRU3000
the united states doesnt have the right to occupy another country!
these people are fighting for there home land and dont give a rats azz about being liberated....yes they dont like saddam but to hell about telling us how we should live and who we should consider to lead us and if you disapprove you want yet another regime change.....

I dont know to many amereicans willing to walk up to foreign soldier and blow him self the F up.....over there you have 5 million people with anger and rage in there hearts because the coalition forces are steady killing mothers,fathers,grandathers,children......if you see that everyday caused by bombs falling outta the sky "F" Liberation.....let us liberate ourselves without your help! and if you come to Baghdad you will be faced with resistance!

it was reported today that Iraq was preparing for this time to come as Bush was stepping into office and a lil bit before then......they knew these days were ahead! Also Hamas, Hesbollah, Al- Quaeda and various other islamic fundamentalist were sending operatives over to prepare for the conflict.....

if anything we will have to keep bombing and I dont othere countries are gonna just let us obliterate an Arab Country let alone people of the Islamic faith.

,,,,,,, why is it such a big deal when the U.S. takes all kinds of care not to kill civilians but inevitably kills some (after having to put up with all kinds of "underhanded trickery" and tactics),,, but not a big deal or even mentioned when Saddam/Russia/african countries do the same openly and makes no bones, no if/ands/buts about it?

 

[Mike]

I am for the government only because they have sent my family members over there. Other than that.......

We really have no right to tell another country that they can't bare arms. We have some of the same weapons that they are trying to acquire.

Saddam is not a friend of mine and he has done those people wrong. What are we gonna do when someone stages an assassination of the person that "WE" put in power over that nation? You do know that the next person in power has to be one of our puppets, right?

There is no way we are gonna be able to help them keep that country stable without occupying that country for a long time. Even then, we will have resistance on a regular and pretty soon the other Arab nations will start going against us. Once we leave that territiory it will be open season for anyone wanting to take over that country. Believe it or not we may have liberated them into a new danger because they will not be able to protect themselves from anyone after we conquer their military and leave them without the ability to fight aggressors off.

I'm through....this is not a bash my country thing. It's just how I see things. Bush is still an idiot to me and my opinion won't change of him and his policies. His inability to communicate the reasons for this war and encourage others in why it is nessecary is validation of this. It may be because of his father pulling out and causing people to be slaughtered by Saddam's Regime in Gulf War I. But, I still say he is an idiot and if you need to understand why I say that. Re-read all of my posts concerning him.

I can't even bring myself to type anymore about this......

 

[TSU/BAMA]

Well, I say let the Iraqi free themselves. When they have had enough of that SOB they will get rid of him.

 

[J C]

Bartram: Are the suicide attacks justified? Will they change our rules of engagement. Will many innocent Iraqis suffer like the Palestinians because of these tactics. Just heard on news that seven women and children were kill for not stopping at a checkpoint. Is all fair in war? Will we react like the Russians in their break way republics?

 

[Bartram]

Originally posted by Mike
I am for the government only because they have sent my family members over there. Other than that.......

We really have no right to tell another country that they can't bare arms. We have some of the same weapons that they are trying to acquire.

Saddam is not a friend of mine and he has done those people wrong. What are we gonna do when someone stages an assassination of the person that "WE" put in power over that nation? You do know that the next person in power has to be one of our puppets, right?

There is no way we are gonna be able to help them keep that country stable without occupying that country for a long time. Even then, we will have resistance on a regular and pretty soon the other Arab nations will start going against us. Once we leave that territiory it will be open season for anyone wanting to take over that country. Believe it or not we may have liberated them into a new danger because they will not be able to protect themselves from anyone after we conquer their military and leave them without the ability to fight aggressors off.

I'm through....this is not a bash my country thing. It's just how I see things. Bush is still an idiot to me and my opinion won't change of him and his policies. His inability to communicate the reasons for this war and encourage others in why it is nessecary is validation of this. It may be because of his father pulling out and causing people to be slaughtered by Saddam's Regime in Gulf War I. But, I still say he is an idiot and if you need to understand why I say that. Re-read all of my posts concerning him.

I can't even bring myself to type anymore about this......

Some people know this going in. It's the way the world works.

 

[Bartram]

Interesting.

Originally posted by J C
Bartram: Are the suicide attacks justified? Will they change our rules of engagement. Will many innocent Iraqis suffer like the Palestinians because of these tactics. Just heard on news that seven women and children were kill for not stopping at a checkpoint. Is all fair in war? Will we react like the Russians in their break way republics?

Very good cut-to-the-point questions J C. Let me address these one by one.

Are suicide attacks justified? Yes. what the hell would you (I don't know your positions so let me not use you as an example), what the hell would native southerners do if, for example, China or Russia invaded the South to take out D.C. and major southern cities? What did the South do during the civil war? It's a freaking war and somebody is invading their country and they are out-gunned and over-matched. What do you expect them to do; sit in their tanks and "fight fair" when they don't have night fighting capability equal to us and the range of the guns on their tanks is much less than that of U.S. tanks??? The Iraqi aren't that stupid.

Changing rules? I hope so, but probably not because this country is a victum of political correctness, world opinion and we don't have the will to adapt like, say, the Russians or Israel.

Iraqis suffer? If Iraqi soldiers and gorillas keep pulling stunts to raise the stakes there will be uneeded suffering, yes.

Is all fair in War? It was also reported that warning shots were fired and procedures were taken to try to get the vehicle to stop and the car didn't stop. Turns out that, apparantly, the car/women children (there were 4 or so survivors) were not on a mission, but how was the soldiers to know given the new tactics and the car not stopping? Is all fair in war? Well, that all depends on rather you are winning or losing it and how effective propoganda is at a particular point in the war.

Other than that, armed forces have to adapt to the situation and sometimes things like this happen. How about all the other countless times that cars stop or the armed forces takes a chance and nothing happens and everybody goes their way? We don't hear about those reports on the news.

No the U.S. will not react like the Russians. There's too much pressure from left-wing extremists who have infiltrated all parts of the system/media and worries about world opinion. This is a "politically correct" war and the U.S. is hamstrung by all this. Now if Iraq breaks out the bio-chemicals,,,,,,,,,, then I don't know.

Let's say they break out b-cs and take out 500-1000 U.S. soldiers in one engagement. What do you think the U.S. would do then?

 

[EB]

Originally posted by Bartram


,,,,,,, why is it such a big deal when the U.S. takes all kinds of care not to kill civilians but inevitably kills some (after having to put up with all kinds of "underhanded trickery" and tactics),,, but not a big deal or even mentioned when Saddam/Russia/african countries do the same openly and makes no bones, no if/ands/buts about it?

It is a big deal when pictures of civilians injured or killed are shown. It is a very big deal.

Understand. Russia's crisis Chechneya is a very big deal.

The gassing of the Kurds by Saddam's forces was a big deal. But I do not think that the Reagan administration made it a big deal.

When the Shiites and the Kurds revolted against Saddam, the senior George Bush encouraged it. But the administration did not help them. Now, many Shiites and Kurds do not trust the Americans. Still, the revolt was a big deal to some.

People like Mobutu Sese Seko and Idi Amin were a big deal to a lot of people. But they were anti-communist, so they were in the good graces with the US. But they were a big deal to a lot of people.

Originally posted by Bartram


.....

No the U.S. will not react like the Russians. There's too much pressure from left-wing extremists who have infiltrated all parts of the system/media and worries about world opinion. This is a "politically correct" war and the U.S. is hamstrung by all this. Now if Iraq breaks out the bio-chemicals,,,,,,,,,, then I don't know.

.....

What influence do so-called "left wing" extremists have in this country? The left wing has never had major influence in the politicis in this country. The major media in this country is not left wing.

 

[Bartram]

Originally posted by EB


It is a big deal when pictures of civilians injured or killed are shown. It is a very big deal.

Understand. Russia's crisis Chechneya is a very big deal.

The gassing of the Kurds by Saddam's forces was a big deal. But I do not think that the Reagan administration made it a big deal.

When the Shiites and the Kurds revolted against Saddam, the senior George Bush encouraged it. But the administration did not help them. Now, many Shiites and Kurds do not trust the Americans. Still, the revolt was a big deal to some.

People like Mobutu Sese Seko and Idi Amin were a big deal to a lot of people. But they were anti-communist, so they were in the good graces with the US. But they were a big deal to a lot of people.

What influence do so-called "left wing" extremists have in this country? The left wing has never had major influence in the politicis in this country. The major media in this country is not left wing.

On your last point I disagree with you 100%. We will agree to disagree, but here's some of my thoughts. There is so much more I can't include it all. The left-wing extremists dominate most everything produced in hollywood from movies to music to commercials and print media. The only thing the left-wing extremists don't have control of is AM talk radio. Most news stories, especially depending on the source, run stories critical of the U.S. or anything to make the U.S. look bad. Take the black muslim soldier for example; that story ran a few times and is gone. Take 911 for example; they didn't show the death and carnage there (only a few shots at first, and then everything was "sanitized".), but let a woman or child in some country that the U.S. is at war against scrape their knee and it's on the front page of every magazine and news paper in the country. Take the POWs that were killed and mutilated; I haven't seen but two instances of that on the news and that was FOX. Take these dispicable maggots that committed the D.C. shootings (allegedly); you would think those shootings never happened,, and can you imagine if it were two white supremecists that did the shooting? Jessie/Sharpton/Inphume/etc is/was nowhere to be found once these "suspects" were found. Even on this forum,,, we dropped that story like a hot potato once it came out that it was too black guys "allegedly". This is all conditioning over the decades; a swinging of the pendulumn. We went from right-wing extremism in the early and mid 20th century to left-wing extremism during the latter 20th century,, all stemming from over compensating for the obvious attrocities of the Jim Crow and the civil rights movement.

And then there's music. I'm a big HH/Rap fan,,, but come on,,,, if white people rapped and said some of the things about white folk that black artists get away with saying about white folk, black folk would be up in arms. Much of this i'm referring to is from the early 90s (Ice Cube, so on and so forth). I don't know too much about now as I have gradually stopped listening to contemporary HH/Rap. Take black society in general. We can get away with saying things about white people that if they said the same thing about black people there would be a huge uproar,, like these cats getting whacked for "PC" comments towards blacks. That's all extreme left driven.

Then there's all the non-sense when it comes to criminals, people on the streets, environmental regulation, regulation of the growth of cities (i.e., all this non-sense about urban "sprawl" and tactics by groups like Green Peace to block any and everything having to do with city growth and economic development in the name of the environment, but it's more than about the environment.). All the non-sense from the extreme left constantly forcing these ideas of peace at all costs, passivism at all cost.

On the big deal; if it is a big deal to the world when Saddam, Russia and China do it, then why don't they have to put up with terrorism? I don't recall hearing countries up in arms against them in the UN. For one thing, when terrorists attack that country, they know they may meet with the same if not more violent force that they plan to unleash on those countries,,, but in America and Israel,,, there's pressure to respond, much less crush uprisings. (Israel is more of an acception than the US I would admit)

 

[EB]

First of all I guess you forgot the Reagan administration. It lasted from 1981 until 1989. I thought I would remind you. George H.W. Bush became the president in 1989.

On terrorism there is Russia battle with Chechnya. Yes, the US has had to deal with home grown terrorism. Remember Oklahoma City and the Olympic Park bombing? Let's not forget the KKK. Note that the federal government did not do a lot to the KKK for a lot of decades.

I will not post 20 times on whether the major media outlets are conservative or liberal in this country. But if one honestly watches something like Fox News, someone else will not be able to convince many people that it is liberal. Note that the big man there, Rupert Murdoch, is an active opponent of affirmative action.

NBC is owned by General Electric, which does a lot of defense work. I doubt that the NBC news casts will dominate with anti-war protest, even though there are a lot of them around the world.

AOL/Time Warner, which has seemed to have a few financial problems as of late, owns CNN. While I expect the war to dominate the coverage, I have not seen a lot on corporate crimes on CNN. Frankly, corporate crimes have not been reported a lot lately.

Note that Viacom owns CBS, MTV, UPN, TNN, BET and other networks. While I was not the biggest fan of BET before it was bought, I have noticed a lot of changes since Viacom became the owner as in less public affair programming.

The Dallas Morning News, Houston Chronicle and the Atlanta Journal-Constitution will not be mistaken for the liberal media. Speaking of Black folks, I have seen examples of how the Atlanta media trashed or exploited something that went own in Black neighborhoods. Yes, I am talking about the Atlanta media which is in the home of the "Black Mecca."

B, I do not know about you. But I saw a lot of coverage of the sniper case on all networks. On rap music a lot of the financing has come from outside the Black community. The artists maybe mostly Black, but the money behind it is not always Black (namely White).

The are a lot of examples on why the media is not as left wing. Maybe you would want to see nothing but Fox News type of journalism. Maybe there are not enough bad stories about the NAACP, Sharpton, Farrakhan, and Jackson for you. But there is enough media for the conservatives in this country. I have noticed for years how the media reports on stories at HBCUs as oppose to the PWCs. Atlanta is a good example.

The major media is more like this, www.foxnews.com, than like this, www.pacifica.org.

As far as many people are concerned, Bush got a lot of breaks during his campaign.

http://www.uaw.org/cap/01/news/day3media.html

?..

Wasting no time, delegate Charlie Cox from UAW Local 2162, who is a Vietnam veteran, set the tone by asking why George W. Bush got a free ride from the media regarding reports that he was AWOL during most of the time he served in the National Guard during the Vietnam war.

"Let me give you some statistics," responded panelist Paul Begala, "I worked for Bill Clinton in 1992 and ?in anticipation of this very question, I looked this up on Nexis. There were 13,641 stories about Bill Clinton 'dodging the draft' ?and there were 49 stories about Bush and the National Guard," Begala said.

Conceding that Bush had generally gotten a "gentle ride" during the campaign from the press, Howard Fineman drew a loud protest from the crowd when he suggested that the press wasn't as aggressive with regard to Bush because the scandals of the Clinton years had "exhausted" the press and the public.

?..

I am not the only one who has a problem with much of the American media. There are a lot of Americans who have problems too.

US public turns to Europe for news

I like the mouse, Disney, and loved my last visit to Disneyland. But one of the biggest stars at ABC News is George Will, a conservative commentator. Will has been called an Ivy League good old boy.

Again I will not post 20 times explaining the media in this country. The FCC may make it to where there is less local media diversity (of ownership) in towns and cities. This will benefit a lot of conservatives.

http://www.awolbush.com/
http://www.fair.org/reports/iraq-sources.html
http://www.fair.org/activism/iraq-sources-networks.html

 

[Mike]

More proof that an idiot runs our country. Thanks EB! It just keeps getting worse.

:smh:

 

[MsJag4Jag]

<font color=salmon>My Asian co-worker just taught me something else today:

Uhhh, Japan does not really have a military. He said they have something called a military but they are pretty much the same as "the national guard"... He said they are still under the protection of the US military. The reason is that they lost in WWII so it is stated in their country's Constitution that they are not even allowed to have a sufficient military.


***astonished that I don't know this history already***

This makes the US look like a big bully...but at the same time, it means the US control other countries...Is this to assure they can't be communist? </font>

 

[J-State Tiger]

This is what happens when your country gets conqured in War. Germany doesnt have much by way of a military either. Im not really worried about suicide attacks over in Iraq. The troops cany pretty much protect themselves. But what about suicide attacks in Chicago, or Des Moines or Scranton? If you dont give a fugg about dying, you can cause all kinds of havok. Think about the huge crowds of people that walk the streets of NYC on a work day. An AK47 could mow down person anf ter person. Its scary.

 

[Dr. Mac]

Co-signing on EB's post.

Regards.

 

[Bartram]

Originally posted by J C
Are our forces ready for these types of attack?. Muslim fundamentalists all over the Islamist world are announcing their intentions of using these tactics. What does it mean for our forces occuppying post war Iraq? This operation could be longer and more costly than we anticipated.

This is not Clinton/democrats the fundamentalists are dealing with, esp if GW gets re-elected. I'd suggest the fundamentalists lay low for a few years (approximately 6) until two more elections to see if a democrat get elected,,, then unleash their attacks. If they unleash attacks now, there will be no cheek turning.