Should Christians
- Thread starter Kendrick
- Start date
dacontinent
Preacher
The roots of Halloween are clearly demonic. The placement of the day was chosen as a 1-up to All Saints Day (Nov 1), which is of Catholic church origin.
Consequently and emphatically, NO, Christians should not celebrate Halloween. As for All Saints Day, Christians ARE saints. It might be a nice thing to celebrate and honor our forefathers in the faith.
JayRob
TigaPaw
For knowledgeable individuals, Easter and Christmas are clearly known to be of pagan origin, so why are Christians observing those days? Sounds like selective reasoning to me.
They shouldn't do those things either.
Storm96
Well-Known Member
Basically
dacontinent
Preacher
Succinct.
dacontinent
Preacher
Perhaps you need a hearing test. Wait ... nevermind. You are not a Christian and disdain the history of Christ. You won't hear it anyway.
Chances are your birthday is celebrated by someone, regardless of when it occurs. Why wouldn't Christians do the same for Jesus? Wait. Christians do that every day.
Most certainly one would want to celebrate the resurrection of his Savior. That is something worth shouting and dancing about. Wait. Christians do that every day, too.
Perhaps you would like to share with us what great events Christians would be commemorating by celebrating Halloween ... or is that a matter of being too selective?
Rated R Superstar
Well-Known Member
People like to throw whole idea that Halloween is kids dressing up and getting candy and failing to understand why costumes and candy are part of the celebration.
The Wearing Of Masks - "The purpose of wearing a mask in most primitive religious traditions is to make a spiritual connection with the deity or the Nature Spirit represented by the mask. ... The mask would then have a spirit or magickal power of its own .. it seems like the most natural thing, to use masking as a part of the Samhain Sabbat. .. That the practice of masked dancing is still today associated with Samhain, the time when the veil between the living and the spirits of of the dead is very thin, suggests that in some way the masked dancers were trying to contact the spirits of the slain and hunted animals. .. Though much of this has been lost or temporarily forgotten, there is still much about the tradition costumes worn by children today that tells us Halloween is a celebration of the spirits.
"Trick-Or-Treating" - "Trick-or-treating originated in Ireland when on the eve of Samhain, people would go house to house looking for food contributions to Muck Olla. The group was led by a man in a white robe with a horse-head mask. After him walked young men blowing cow horns. They would stop at each house recite some verses that told the farmer that his prosperity was due to Muck Olla and if he wishes to prosper he should make a contribution to the spirit. .. people in costumes and masks went begging from farm to farm, reciting verses that described the damage that spirits would do to a farmer's house or barn if the farmer refused to give something. This is not unlike the American way of trick- or-treating, in which we sometimes recite the verse, 'Trick-or-treat, smell my feet. Give me something good to eat!' It is assumed that a practical joke will be played on an unwilling neighbor." (4) While the identity of a Celtic deity named "Muck Olla" is in serious question (we don't have any evidence that the Druids identified any god by this name), the practice of trick-or-treating is what we are focusing on. The practice of making offerings of some sort to Celtic deities is what contemporary children's visitations to homes on Halloween is largely based upon.
JayRob
TigaPaw
Are you blaming me for what Christians observe? I'm simply a messenger. Fact of the matter is that both Christmas and Easter are of pagain origin, as is Halloween. Do you deny this about all three holidays?
dacontinent
Preacher
You are not old enough to be blamed or credited for what Christians observe. And, no, I don't.
Now, are you going to answer my questions?
JayRob
TigaPaw
This has nothing to do with how old I am? I simply asked if Easter, Christmas and Halloween are of pagan origin? My answer is yes. What's your's?
Isn't it ironic that Christ's birthday is celebrated on the same day as the winter solstice, one of the most celebrated pagan holidays of the year?
Isn't it ironic that the name Easter is derived from the pagan god Ashtoreth or Astarte and that it signals a rebirth in nature whereas Christians celebrate the rebirth/resurrection of Jesus?
Halloween is the celebration of pagan deities, so in essence, I understand why Christians observe this day. Christianity is derived from multiple pagan religions.
As far as your questions are concerned, what questions are you referring too?
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dacontinent
Preacher
You still have trouble following threads. Let me see if I can make it easier for you.
My questions are in Post #9.JayRob said:
See my first sentence in Post #13. You would have to be 1500+ years old to get the blame or credit for these beliefs. So, it is absolutely about your age.JayRob said:
See my second sentence in Post #13.JayRob said:
JayRob
TigaPaw
Would you please do one the honor of simply answering questions without having to refer one back to several posts?
Now again I ask, is Easter and Christmas both derived from pagan religions? You admitted that Halloween was.
dacontinent
Preacher
You are really special.
For the third time,JayRob said:
dacontinent said:
Now, honor or not, are you going to answer my questions?
JayRob
TigaPaw
dacontinent [QUOTE said:
Is that all you have?
Either you're in denial or you don't know history, or maybe both. Hopefully the following will serve to enlighten you about Christmas.
Why is Christmas celebrated on December 25th? Most people assume that it has always been a Christian holiday and that it is a celebration of the birth of Jesus. But it turns out that Jesus was not born on December 25th. However, a whole bunch of pagan gods were born on that day. In fact, pagans celebrated a festival involving a heroic supernatural figure that visits an evergreen tree and leaves gifts on December 25th long before Jesus was ever born. From its early Babylonian roots, the celebration of the birth or "rebirth" of the sun god on December 25th came to be celebrated under various names all over the ancient world. You see, the winter solstice occurs a few days before December 25th each year. The winter solstice is the day of the year when daylight is the shortest. In ancient times, December 25th was the day each year when the day started to become noticeably longer. Thus it was fitting for the early pagans to designate December 25th as the date of the birth or the "rebirth" of the sun.
The truth is that thousands of years before there was a "Santa Claus", there was another supernatural figure who would supposedly visit a tree and leave gifts every December 25th.
His name was Nimrod.
The celebration of December 25th goes all the way back to ancient Babylon.
So when you offer "yuletide" greetings, you are actually acknowledging Nimrod's birthday.
The truth is that the pagan holiday of "Yule" has been celebrated by the pagans of northern Europe from late December through early January for centuries and centuries. Yule logs were traditionally lit throughout northern Europe to honor the pagan god Thor. The festival would continue until the Yule log burned out - which could take up to twelve days. This is where we get the so-called "12 days of Christmas".
In fact, Wiccans, neo-pagans and even many witches still celebrate Yule to this day. Many of them think it is incredibly funny when Christians use the pagan word Yule. Yule is one of the most important holidays for them. The following excerpt was taken from a website on witchcraft:
http://unexplainedmysteriesofthewor...ber-25th-but-a-whole-bunch-of-pagan-gods-were
==========================
Here's historical evidence regarding Easter's origin:
The name "Easter" is merely the slightly changed English spelling of the name of the ancient Assyrian goddess Ishtar, pronounced by the Assyrians exactly as we pronounce "Easter." The Babylonian name of this goddess was Astarte, consort of Baal, the Sun god, whose worship is denounced by The Almighty in the Bible as the most abominable of all pagan idolatry.
Look up the word "Easter" in Webster's dictionary. You will find: "AS. (Anglo-Saxon), from name of an old Teuton goddess of spring".
In the large volume Hastings Bible Dictionary, only six lines are given to the name "Easter" because it occurs only once in the Bible and that only in the King James translation. Says Hastings: "Easter, used in Authorized Version as the translation of 'Pascha' in Acts 12:4, 'intending after Easter to bring him forth to the people'. Revised Version has substituted correctly 'the Passover.'"
Easter, as Hislop says: ("The Two Babylons,") "bear its Chaldean origins on its very forehead. Easter is nothing else than Astarte, one of the titles of Beltis, the 'queen of heaven,' whose name, as pronounced by the people of Nineveh, was evidently identical with that now in common use in this country."
The ancient gods of the pagans had many different names. While this goddess was called Astarte in Babylon, it appears on Assyrian monuments found by Layard in excavations at Nineveh as Ishtar (Layard's Nineveh and Babylon, page 629). Both were pronounced "Easter". Likewise, Beltis, or Bel (referred to in the Old Testament) also was called Mooch. It was for sacrificing to Moloch (1 Kings 11:1-11, especially verse 7, where Moloch is called an abomination) and other pagan gods that The Eternal condemned Solomon, and rended away the Kingdom of Israel from his son.
In the ancient Chaldean idolatrous Sun worship, Baal was the Sun god, Astarte his consort, or wife. And Astarte is the same as Ishtar, or the English Easter.
Says Hislop: "The festival, of which we read in church history, under the name Easter, in the third or forth centuries, was quite a different festival from that now observed in the Roman (and Protestant) church, and at that time was not known by any such name as Easter. IT WAS CALLED PASSOVER, and was very early observed by Christians.... That festival agreed originally with the time of the Jewish Passover, when Christ was crucified.... That festival was not idolatrous, and was preceded by no Lent."
http://www.albatrus.org/english/festivals/easter/is_easter_pagan.htm
END.
You'd do well to read the entire article.
Now that you've been enlightened on the origins of both Christmas and Easter, the decision is up to you if you want to continue to honor pagan gods while thinking you're honoring the biblical god.
Uhhh, for the third time, what questions are you referring to? You know I have no problem answering your questions, but it seems to be quite obvious that it's a tremendous strain on your mental faculties to answer mine.
dacontinent
Preacher
What else is needed? You asked questions. I answered them. You asked them again. I gave you the posts where I answered them. You apparently determined that you could not read them, so I posted your quotes of the questions followed by my responses from the posts referred to. Yes, sir...you are special. I am trying to be cordial about something that I frankly find ridiculous.
We already know that there are times that you won't read what's posted. Are we now to be concerned that there are times that you can't read? I agreed with you about Christmas and Easter yet you operate under some notion of presenting some enlightenment. Are you thoroughly confused with your own reasoning? Wait ... more of your special attributes on display.
Copied from Post #9 as documented above:
dacontinent said:
JayRob
TigaPaw
dacontinent; [QUOTE said:
Most of your responses made no sense at all.
You stated that Christmas and Easter weren't pagan. I simply showed evidence that they were and are of pagan origin, yet millions of Christians still honor those days. They don't realize they're worshipping the very pagans they criticize and condemn to hell fire.
Is something preventing you from simply typing the questions? Sheesh.
dacontinent
Preacher
I absolutely defy you to find anything in a prior post in this thread where DAContinent stated the Christmas & easter weren't pagan.
Nothing at all. But, for you, I will copy and paste my previous quote where I asked you and then rephrase the questions so you can respond properly.
Re-post:
dacontinent said:
Rephrase:
- What endearing events would Christians be commemorating by celebrating Halloween?
- Is my asking question #1 being too selective in my reasoning?
There you have the two questions. I eagerly await your response.
JayRob
TigaPaw
[QUOTE=dacontinent
You never gave an answer one way or the other, but thanks for finally admitting that two of the most important days in Christianity was taken and stolen from pagans.
I thought the biblical god forbade his people from using pagan days to honor him. Sounds a bit hypocritical.
This is more evidence showing and proving that important characteristics from pagan religions was taken by the founders of Christianity and used as it's own. Do you deny this?
See, that wasn't so difficult was it?
As far as endearing events is concerned, nothing about religion is endearing. I'm simply baffled as to why Christians would want to take part in observing a day that's the most holiest of days for witches and wiccas called Halloween?
It makes no difference to me, but it's still highly hypocritical for Christians to condemn pagan worship, yet turn around and practice some of those same rituals one condemns.
As a matter of fact, EVERY holy day observed by Christians is solely taken from pagan religions.
You never gave an answer one way or the other, but thanks for finally admitting that two of the most important days in Christianity was taken and stolen from pagans.
I thought the biblical god forbade his people from using pagan days to honor him. Sounds a bit hypocritical.
This is more evidence showing and proving that important characteristics from pagan religions was taken by the founders of Christianity and used as it's own. Do you deny this?
See, that wasn't so difficult was it?
As far as endearing events is concerned, nothing about religion is endearing. I'm simply baffled as to why Christians would want to take part in observing a day that's the most holiest of days for witches and wiccas called Halloween?
It makes no difference to me, but it's still highly hypocritical for Christians to condemn pagan worship, yet turn around and practice some of those same rituals one condemns.
As a matter of fact, EVERY holy day observed by Christians is solely taken from pagan religions.
dacontinent
Preacher
I take it this means that you were wrong when you said that I stated that anything about Christmas or Easter. Because I haven't said anything about them yet. Stay tuned.
Secondly, there is nothing in the Bible about any days of the calendar being surrendered to pagans. All days belong to God and we are instructed to worship Him in all of them. What is forbidden of participation in pagan worship at any time.
Absolutely. Jesus is the founder of Christianity. He was born just like the rest of us. We have no biblical nor historical record of what day of the year this occurred. Christmas is celebrated on December 25 (most common), January 6, January 7, and January 19 depending on which day one chooses. The equinoxes have never occurred on either of those calendar days. Christmas originated as the Christ Mass (note the name) in Catholicism as a celebration of the birth of Jesus of Nazareth basing the approximation of His birth on the birth of His cousin, John.
As for Easter, its origin is clearly pagan. I have never celebrated Easter, but I have always celebrated the Ressurrection of Christ. His death occurred at Passover and His resurrection some three days later. Israel was commanded to observe the Passover forever. While there is sufficient evidence to support that Easter originated before the Passover, God established the observance of the latter as an ordinance FOREVER. So, He apparently have a problem with dates coinciding. The adaptation of celebrating Christ's resurrection is a custom in Christianity due to the ENDEARING significance of the event. It is neither encouraged nor forbidden in Scripture ... neither are Thanksgiving Day (hardly), Labor Day, Veterans Day, Armistice Day, Mothers/Fathers/Granparents Day, Cinco de Mayo, New Year's Day, etc.
See, that wasn't so difficult was it?
I guess my rephrased questions were not good enough for you to attempt to answer. Let me try again.
Are you, JAYROB, aware of any events endearing to CHRISTIANS which might warrant Christians celebrating Halloween? If so, what are they?
How much time do you want to recant this?
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JayRob
TigaPaw
dacontinent I[QUOTE said:
You initially refused to admit that Christmas and Easter were of pagan origin. Now I see you've changed your tune. Good for you. That's progress.
Keep hiding behind semantics if that helps ease your conscience. Fact of the matter is that all of the major Christian holy days are easily proven as having derived from paganism.
Hahahahaha!!! Nice try, but not good enough. December 25th is the birth date of several pagan gods. How ironic is it that out of 365 days of the year, Christians "just happened" to choose December 25th, the birth date of several pagan gods named Attis, Dionysius, Osiris and others? What are the chances of that happening?
December 25th was the last day of the equinox and the LONGEST day, so the pagans used this day as their holy day.
Historical documents tell us the Babylonians celebrated December 25th in honor of their sun-god. Christian writers simply copied it and use it to worship their so-called son of god.
So you again admit that parts of Christianity were stolen? What else was stolen that Christians "in the know" are refusing to admit?
Many pagan gods were said to have been resurrected from the dead, so that's nothing new either. That's copied too.
As far as the Passover is concerned, that was stolen from ancient Eastern religions as well. The art of symbolically eating the flesh and drinking the blood of one's god was known long before the Israelite stories came along.
You are so wrong in saying this. Earlier you all but admitted that you don't observe Easter, now you're saying that it's not forbidden? You seem to be saying this in order to "save face" with your Christian counterparts, so I understand.
Neither of those days are considered "high holy days" in the Christian religion, that's why they're not forbidden. There was no need for you to even mention these days. Neither of them are biblical nor holy.
You would be the one to know since you typed it and walked on egg-shells while trying not to offend fellow Christians for observing a pagan day you don't observe. LOL!!
If some Christians want to remain consistent with observing pagan holy days while claiming it as their own, then they should observe Halloween.
It really doesn't matter to me what they choose to observe just as long as they don't try and force me to observe them, but thanks again for admitting that both Christmas and Easter are of pagan origin.
I'll give you time to erase this post. Better yet, which Christian holy days aren't pagan?
dacontinent
Preacher
I'm still singing the same tune. You spoke of Christmas and Easter. I spoke of celebrating Christ's birth and resurrection. As you have detailed, the concepts are completely dissimilar.JayRob said:
As I sit and contemplate deeply on the subject, I realize that there are no Christian (as distinguished from Jewish) holy days. None. Zero. Zilch. Pentecost was already a Jewish holy day and there were never any ordinances given relative to celebrations of Christ's birth or death. So...there are none.JayRob said:
Christians have also chosen Jan 6,7, and 19th for all kinds of reasons. You chose not to speak to those dates. Why? I don't know or care. My point is that Christians CHOOSE to celebrate endearing events on whatever days they like. There are no commands, ordinances, nor scriptures giving directions for or against such celebrations. The only ordinances given by Christ were baptism (based on a decision without regard to days) and the eucharist, which was celebrated EVERY DAY by some members of the early Church. So, if some Christians decided to celebrate the birth of Jesus Christ on October 31, it would be just as appropriate as worshipping on any other day of the year. Please understand that it is not the day that is the object of worship. Which pagan gods do Christians worship on any day? Oh...that would be an oxymoron. Even new and ignorant Christians know that.JayRob said:
Stolen? LOL. Read the gospels. There has never been anyone like Jesus of Nazareth. Nothing to steal or copy.JayRob said:
I think you have something confused here. There is not eating of flesh and drinking of blood involved in Passover.JayRob said:
No face to save here, sir. I said nothing about Easter. I referred to the resurrection of Christ and the custom of celebrating that truth. Easter is a completely different matter.JayRob said:
"Considered"? That means that JayRob already understands that they are not "high holy days" at all in Christianity. That means that the arguement that you presenting for Christianity is not about Christianity at all. It is really about public acceptance and retailing. As usual, it is just a matter of letting you voice things until the truth comes out.JayRob said:
That's funny. I am probably considered one of the most offensive Christians on these boards. I'm not pulling any punches, which is why I delivered my initial post in this thread in no uncertain terms. I will continue.JayRob said:
Great statements. Exactly the kind of thing that you are noted for. I commend you for your consistency.JayRob said:
Now, when are you going to answer my question? Since you missed it somehow, here it is again.
Are you, JAYROB, aware of any events endearing to CHRISTIANS which might warrant Christians celebrating Halloween? If so, what are they?
The second question is conditional upon the binary answer to the first. That means, if you answer the first in the affirmative, it would be appropriate to identify the events as the proper response to the second question. Otherwise (meaning a negative response to the first question), there is no need to respond to the second question at all. However, you might still choose to do so. Special. REALLY special.