MikeBigg, A-FREAKING-MEN on your commentary.


Bartram

Brand HBCUbian
SWAC/HBCUs to Div I-A

Could not agree with you more. We hash the hell out of this topic on this forum. Hopefully the OBVIOUS NATURAL MOVE UP will continue to get more positive run. Great article.
 

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Why is there talk of playing at the highest level (1A) while we are "a freaking joke" at the 1AA level. Will going 1A make us less of "a freaking joke". Where will we get the $$$ we will have to spend at the 1A level?


just asking....
 
The fact that USM here in la. is dropping down after a long period at trying their hand in D1aa. should tell us something .Not to mention this....

Tuesday, October 1, 2002

Selling Division I-AA college football is tough

Whether you?re 4-0 or 0-4 right now, selling the show of Division I-AA college football is a tough job for any athletic director these days and it?s not getting any easier.



Mike Trocchi
Staff Sports Writer
Five years after Boston University cut its football program, the questions of what a low-tier program contributes to, and takes from, a school are still being debated. Some say the indirect public relations and recruiting rewards are enough, but everyone agrees there is no financial reward or expectation of one.

That?s why changes in the way I-AA playoff football is played could make that level of gridiron action a whole lot more fun and somewhat more profitable. In its present form, I-AA football stands alone as a macabre college sports investment.

It is one of the only sports where winning won?t cure the financial ills involved. Northeastern is 4-0 and ranked in the top 10 in the ESPN/USA Today poll this week. Still, with the field and location of the school, last week?s 42-17 win over UMass last Saturday drew a mere 6,651 fans.

Former Northeastern athletic director, now the head man at UMass, Ian McCaw said the challenge of promoting Division I-AA football is presently a three-pronged task.

"The challenge is primarily marketing visibility," McCaw said. "Then, you?re going against games on a Saturday afternoon on TV like Florida-Florida State and Division I-A games like that. The third thing is, that it?s very hard to generate revenue at the I-AA level."

You can look to Maine as a hot program over the last few years with little competition, but it hasn?t changed the financial situation there. Maine interim athletic director Paul Bubb said that a school holding financial concerns too highly when it comes to I-AA football is missing the point. Maine had 6,600 in attendance for its first home game, but even an 11-1 or 10-2 season will only draw about $100,000 more in revenue for the Black Bears than would a losing campaign.

"The universities have to understand what they?re involved in when they?re invested in I-AA football," he said. "It simply doesn?t have the financial rewards." McCaw estimates that an average I-AA program in New England spends between $2 and $3 million each year.

Since cutting football, BU has built a new hockey rink and increased its competitiveness in a host of women?s sports. It cost the school $3 million a year to fund football and it received about $40,000 a year in revenues, along with $50,000 of contributions from friends and alumni, according to numbers in the school?s faculty newspaper published in 1997.

That was a $2.9 million bath the Terriers took each year. The job of AD becomes a whole lot easier and the budget becomes a little looser when you don?t have to invest so many scholarships into one program. I-AA football is a tough sell to fans. It doesn?t matter if you?re 10-2 or if you?re 3-8.

"It?s fairly expensive," said Bubb, whose Black Bears are currently ranked No. 3 in the nation. "You have a stadium that seats 10,000, not 100,000." Bubb noted that the University of Montana, which has a stadium that seats 19,000 might be one of only two I-AA schools in the country that profits or comes close to breaking even.

But instead of accepting this hopeless status, I-AA football could be tweaked to increase exposure, according to McCaw. "There are a lot of questions about the playoff system and how it works," he said. Going to places in Alabama or Louisiana for a playoff provides little in the way of marketing and promotional opportunities.

Bubb has a novel idea that?s been talked about to move the Division I-AA game right smack into the middle of the I-A bowl season between Christmas and the first week in January. "I think it?s a mistake to play the I-AA championship game before Christmas," he said. "The games that matter are after Christmas. The ones that occur before Christmas are considered less important."

Another idea is to move the game from places like Tennessee to a resort area in Florida or on the West Coast. That could bring more money to all I-AA schools and close that yawning gap between revenues and returns.

Bubb tries not to look at the current situation as a negative. "Does cross country make money?" Bubb asked. "Does volleyball? I?ve never been told we have to have an athletics department that makes money."

And even if you?re 3-0 and on the way to a winning season in the 8-3 range or 0-3 and struggling to finish 4-7, promoting Division I-AA football, five years after BU dropped its program, has got to be one of the most challenging jobs an athletic director faces today.

"You have to understand you?re not going to make money," Bubb said. "It?s beneficial to have good public relations by having a football program. If you?re successful ? and we?re up in the polls right now ? people are now talking Maine football."

Still, there may be no task tougher as an AD these days than squeezing off-the-field rewards out of Division I-AA football.

I guess this just went over some of our heads:rolleyes:
 
look at how we compete in basketball and other sports against 1-a schools, we flat out suck so why even waste millions in football and not get a return investment?
 
Some SWAC schools might be able to make the leap only after years of preperation. Most won't. Truthfully, some of our schools are probably better suited for D-2.
 
Why is there talk?

Why is there talk of playing at the highest level (1A) while we are "a freaking joke" at the 1AA level. Will going 1A make us less of "a freaking joke". Where will we get the $$$ we will have to spend at the 1A level?

well, one of the premises in the article is that perhaps our talent base is erroding because the best talent is increasingly choosing to go play for Div I-A schools instead of Div I-AA and lower schools, that we are simply stagnating and our talent pool is eroding at Div I-AA, etc.
 
I feel we have a very marketable product and that it's time to build upon our image and reputation before it's too late. I'm sure many naysayers questioned Eddie Robinson, Collie Nicholson, and SU's Ulysses Jones and others when they conceived of the Bayou Classic. Just think of the doubters who stated: Moving the GSU and SU game to New Orleans and Tulane Stadium will never work. The only big game for Louisiana is LSU and Tulane...folk will never drive down from North Louisiana and stay for the entire weekend in New Orleans"
 
Re: Why is there talk?

Originally posted by Bartram

well, one of the premises in the article is that perhaps our talent base is erroding because the best talent is increasingly choosing to go play for Div I-A schools instead of Div I-AA and lower schools, that we are simply stagnating and our talent pool is eroding at Div I-AA, etc.
So, are we to leap to 1A based on the assumption that blue chip athletes will now flock to our schools? That we will now be in the same league (read $$$) as the SEC and the Big 10? That our problems now are because of our 1AA status?

MikeBigg,
Playing and succeeding in 1A is a whole different ballgame than having the wisdom to make the BC successful.
 
But you guys are missing the point. I suggested we move as a conference. We would not have to schedule games against major conferences. We would be playing against ourselves. There is no need to play major conferences but even if we did, it would only be two games. Remember the edict that all SWAC teams play each other.

We don't go to the playoffs in D1AA but in D1 we could create our own Bowl to further market our product. I think a bowl game against the clear cut SCG champion and another comparable conference champion would be well attended.
 
Minor differences but,,

Although my proposal to move to Div I-A is slightly difference and more traditional than yours, right on MikeBigg. Keep pressing the issue. There needs to be a voice like your against the status quo. Incredible inertia is in place against change and breaking new ground. Just more of the same ole isolationist, "closed society" policies.
 
Originally posted by MikeBigg
But you guys are missing the point. I suggested we move as a conference. We would not have to schedule games against major conferences. We would be playing against ourselves. There is no need to play major conferences but even if we did, it would only be two games. Remember the edict that all SWAC teams play each other.

We don't go to the playoffs in D1AA but in D1 we could create our own Bowl to further market our product. I think a bowl game against the clear cut SCG champion and another comparable conference champion would be well attended.

Oh and i guess PVU and MVSU will maintan 15,000 per game(no smack intended)
No mike your missing the point and dreaming a little too
 
bluedog,

We should give all SWAC schools the opportunity to show that they are committed to becoming competitive with a move up to 1A.

If schools are not committed...the SWAC may have to drop schools like MVSU and PV and recruit schools like FAMU, NSU and NC A&T.

Sounds good to me.
 

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The fact that USM here in la. is dropping down after a long period at trying their hand in D1aa. should tell us something .Not to mention this....

To me this says a lot. Also, we will have to support our program much more than we do now in 1-AA. We will have to change a lot of things. One of them will be in the area of public relations. Anyway, one looks at it, being in division 1-A will be expensive.
 
Originally posted by e_bulldog

We should give all SWAC schools the opportunity to show that they are committed to becoming competitive with a move up to 1A.


I can tell you all right now with my interaction with our President, Senior Vice President of Business and Finance (who makes the financial decisions with our athletic department) as well as our Athletic Director that they all talk a good game plan but when it is time to deliver they are not following through with their so-called committment.

Now Prairie View is making their movement and that is evident with increasing their scholarship allotments from 15 to 63 as well as going after a new head coach. Now I can't speak on behalf of the other schools you named but Texas Southern (my alma mater) don't see the picture with making athletics as your primary or even secondary tool for marketing.

A move of this magnitude is only as good as your weakest team.
 
Originally posted by bluedog


Oh and i guess PVU and MVSU will maintan 15,000 per game(no smack intended)
No mike your missing the point and dreaming a little too


I agree with Mike Bigg, but the bad thing will be that not all the SWAC schools will be able to make the move so we will lose some. My proposal was to take the SWAC schools that meet the 1-A requirements and then get the MEAC schools and ask TnState to move up all together as a conference. My idea looks like this. Any schools I leave off please don't get mad. I am only thinking about the 1A requirements and realistically some of us don't meet it.

My conference would be

East Division
FAMU
TnState
Bama St
AAMU

West
JSU
Alcorn
Grambling
SU

Other teams to consider would be Hampton(I was thinking about the distance from the other schools, but they obviously would be considered.) Same thing applies to maybe NC A&T, SC State, BCC, I know NSU has the stadium, but I do not know their attendance.

Basically my point is that an HBCU superconference would need to be formed to move up to 1A. The whole SWAC or whole MEAC would have issues with some of it's member schools meeting the 1A criteria. No disrespect, but I can't see Valley, TxSU, PV , and UAPB being able to do so. Heck it will be rough for the rest of us.
 
Fellas, moving to 1-A is only a reality for 2 maybe 3 schools in our conference. I don't have to mention those schools, you know them. I am all for moving up because competing among ourselves has run it's course. But there is no way we could move up as a conference.
 
Ok I will say It

About this time every year, the football schools in the SWAC think you can make that move to Div 1A profitable. You have about a 1% chance of making it profitable.

I say make basketball the SWAC cornerstone. Its Div 1A already. Each teams have home at 10 to 12 home games where if they were sold out could bring in serious cash. If each had a 10,000 seat stadium (some do, some don't) at $15 apeice, at 12 games at 12 shcools, that is 21.6 million dollars on top of what the SWAC makes from football. That does not include TV, advertising, merchandising, concessions etc. This is the uptapped gold mine becuase a lot our games could have less than 1,000 attending it.

The SWAC should work together to recruit together certain regions of the country. It should almost be a cohesive plan.

Football will never be it for the SWAC because of the BCS schools. They have created a system where only major conferences get paid and mid major conferences do it for fun. Unless there is an NCAA playoff , we should stay in 1-AA. A team like Grambling could go 13-0 and still would be only invite to the Motor City Bowl.

If the SWAC wanted to come together, GSU and SU would give up the Bayou Classic and make that the championship game weekend with all the rivalry games, TSU vs PV, JSU Vs Alcorn, SU vs GSU on Labor Day weekend as a major kickoff to the SWAC.
 
Re: Ok I will say It

Originally posted by KCPVPanther
About this time every year, the football schools in the SWAC think you can make that move to Div 1A profitable. You have about a 1% chance of making it profitable.

I say make basketball the SWAC cornerstone. Its Div 1A already. Each teams have home at 10 to 12 home games where if they were sold out could bring in serious cash. If each had a 10,000 seat stadium (some do, some don't) at $15 apeice, at 12 games at 12 shcools, that is 21.6 million dollars on top of what the SWAC makes from football. That does not include TV, advertising, merchandising, concessions etc. This is the uptapped gold mine becuase a lot our games could have less than 1,000 attending it.

The SWAC should work together to recruit together certain regions of the country. It should almost be a cohesive plan.

Football will never be it for the SWAC because of the BCS schools. They have created a system where only major conferences get paid and mid major conferences do it for fun. Unless there is an NCAA playoff , we should stay in 1-AA. A team like Grambling could go 13-0 and still would be only invite to the Motor City Bowl.

If the SWAC wanted to come together, GSU and SU would give up the Bayou Classic and make that the championship game weekend with all the rivalry games, TSU vs PV, JSU Vs Alcorn, SU vs GSU on Labor Day weekend as a major kickoff to the SWAC.


You can forget about the Bayou Classic. It aint going to happen. It is too political now and no SU or GSU power that be would allow that to happen. Too much money. Even the SWAC office wouldn't ask that. Basically like some folks have said, the SWAC is not going to be able to move up to 1A as a conference. As far as being a mid major conference in 1A, well that is better than nothing. Even a Bowl that pays out only 500 K will help schools our size. I bet Marshall, Toledo and other MAC schools that are doing well are not complaining. It will take vision and some planning. But it can be done. But it will have to be done with other HBCUs that are ready to move up.

The basketball thing is just not going to work. Even the Major schools are having a time recruiting. Now they are getting the next tier type of players. Players like a La Bron James head straight to the pros and others that are good may go to college 1 or 2 years. It is hard to build a program with that happening We just can't get the type of players to fill our arenas. I can remember when I was at SU it was hard to get a ticket to an SU basketball game. But now it is a different story. We can't even recruit an Avery Johnson like player anymore. Basketball recruiting is so corrupt that these kids aint feeling going to a HBCU unless they had grade problems or we get lucky with some. And look at why. We sure are not flooding the NBA with our players. Can't blame a star bball player for not coming to a HBCU when Kentucky, NC, Duke and others are knocking on your door. BTW, those programs also graduate their players. SO we can't even use that against them. So for us HBCUs to try base our revenue on basketball would be tough.

Don't get me wrong, I hope we all can get back to packing the Gyms like the old days. But even then Football was still footing the bills.

Football is an easier sell. We can always show a kid Jerry Rice to Steve Mc Nair to Donald Driver to Aneas Williams or a Hugh Douglass. Face it Football is king and that what pays the bills. Even at the PWCs. Only a few PWCs have bball teams that are bigger than the football programs. Duke, NC, Kentucky, Indiana, UCONN and few others. Everywhere else football rules.
 
FAMU is the best hope.

FAMU/MEAC school will be the first to make the historic move!

Then 5-7 years after them, Southern will finally wake up and make the move!

Div I-A or bust for HBCUs!

out
 
Originally posted by MikeBigg
But you guys are missing the point. I suggested we move as a conference. We would not have to schedule games against major conferences. We would be playing against ourselves. There is no need to play major conferences but even if we did, it would only be two games. Remember the edict that all SWAC teams play each other.

We don't go to the playoffs in D1AA but in D1 we could create our own Bowl to further market our product. I think a bowl game against the clear cut SCG champion and another comparable conference champion would be well attended.
Mike,
What would be the point of moving up and still playing the same teams?
Moving up to 1A, our schools will incur greater costs to fund all of these programs, more scholarships, having to meet higher attendance. It's not like any of us are so financially well off now. We would definitely be a small fish in a big pond.
It's so easy to say let's move up to 1A because thats the highest level. But I still don't see where it's prudent for our schools.
It's okay to want to compete at the highest level. An Alabama State would never had the financial backing of an Alabama, Gram wont have LSU's backing. etc.
Don't kid ourselves into thinking that if we're 1A, that would change things.
And Bartram, that type of thinking doesn't make me an isolationist. Just a realist!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
 
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