Is this (some) blacks crying Wolf in Montgomery?

[Bartram]

Is there any racism against blacks here? Check these articles out on a situation at Montgomery Mall and tell me what you think.

Black leaders to address Montgomery Mall problems
By William F. West
Montgomery Advertiser

Montgomery City Councilman Willie Cook said this morning a news conference is scheduled for 3 p.m. today at City Hall to address the Montgomery Mall matter.

Cook said black elected officials will attend the conference on the steps of City Hall, 103 N. Perry St. Police set up checkpoints at the mall on Saturday night, which they said resulted in 189 citations and five arrests. However, the police actions upset some customers, who complained they were inconvenienced by having to wait as much as 90 minutes to leave the mall parking lot.
Some also have alleged that the actions were racist and targeted blacks. Cook said today that there have been several calls concerning the way the incident was handled. Mayor Bobby Bright, addressing Tuesday night's meeting of the City Council, defended the police department's handling of the Saturday night sweep at the mall, located at the corner of South Boulevard and McGehee Road. Bright also said he believed some council members -- namely Cook -- were aware of the dilemma at the mall and promised to help but failed to follow through. Cook told Bright that any claims of any councilman being insensitive are misstatements.

Police said the checkpoints were set up after a May 24 incident in which a fight broke out in the main corridor of the mall. Police said officers broke up the fight but that while the crowd was dispersing, someone yelled "gun," sending frenzied people pushing and running for the exits. Police also said they have viewed a mall security videotape of the incident, but it has not been made public.

Black Leaders Slam MGM Mall Sweep.

Black leaders slam Montgomery Mall sweep
By William F. West
Montgomery Advertiser

A group of black elected officials joined together on the steps of Montgomery City Hall this afternoon to blast the police and Montgomery Mall over the Saturday night sweep for troublemakers at the shopping center.
State Sen. Quinton T. Ross Jr., D-Montgomery, standing before reporters, took the lead in firing off the complaints.
Ross said he and the rest of the group believe that there is a problem of youth committing both criminal and harassing activity at the mall during weekend hours. There are legitimate questions about parental supervision of those young people, he said, while insisting that the community needs to come together to solve the problem. However, he said, the group strongly disagrees with the way the police and the mall chose to address the problem.
?Essentially, they decided, without contacting any of us here today ? the local officials that represent a portion of this city or all of Montgomery. They handled it by stopping all of the patrons ? casting a wide net, painting a wide brush ? at Montgomery Mall in an intimidation technique and various citations completely unrelated to the problem at hand,? Ross said.
?We think that the action by the mall and the police department was wrong and we will not tolerate this type of structured effort by this Montgomery Police Department nor the Montgomery Mall,? he said.


Police Target Mall Loiterers

Police target loiterers at mall

By Regan Loyola Connolly
Montgomery Advertiser

Debra Matthews, 45, has made it a practice to shop at the Montgomery Mall only on weekdays.
"I won't shop at the Montgomery Mall during the night or on the weekends because it is so heavily infested with young people," she said while eating lunch from Chick-fil-A at the mall's food court. "It gets so crowded, and they cut in front of you, and they are rude. I won't even let my daughter come here by herself and she is 21."
Matthews said she was pleased to learn that the Montgomery Police Department set up checkpoints at the mall Saturday night -- an effort that resulted in 189 citations and five arrests as well as some very upset residents who had to wait up to an hour and a half to exit the mall parking lot.
The Montgomery Police Department and mall management discussed the reason for the checkpoints at a Tuesday morning news conference at police headquarters.
Police Chief John Wilson said an incident at the mall on May 24 prompted Montgomery Mall Manager Donna Berlin to seek help.
Wilson said in that incident, which was captured on mall security cameras, a large fight broke out in the main corridor of the mall. The fight was broken up by police, but while the crowd was dispersing, someone yelled "gun," which sent people into a frenzy, pushing and running for the doors.
"After viewing the tapes myself, it was very apparent that this was a very scary and very dangerous incident going on," Wilson said.
The police chief said he regretted that mall patrons and employees had to wait in the checkpoints, but he said the mall is too important to the city's economy to let the problem get out of hand.
"We did what we had to do to send the message that if you want to come out to shop, we welcome you with open arms, but don't come out there for the wrong reasons," Wilson said.
Berlin said the problem with young people loitering and causing trouble is not something new to mall staff.
"We had taken many other steps to try and eliminate the problems that we had, which were primarily on Saturday night and primarily with young people," Berlin said. "We certainly welcome their shopping dollars because this is a mall for all people, but what was happening Saturday night was not shopping."
Larry Armstead, an assistant to Mayor Bobby Bright, also attended the press conference and said the Mayor stands by the police department's actions.
Wilson and Berlin and Armstead said the sweep was not racially motivated. "I can not reiterate to you enough that this had absolutely nothing to do with race. Anybody who makes that claim is absolutely ludicrous," Wilson said. "If the problem had been at EastChase or Eastdale Mall, we would have gone there."
Because of security problems, a guard now stands at the entrance to Express, a women's clothing store in the mall.
Managers said the security guard was hired from a private company and started work last weekend.
Jonathan Bridges, 15, said he hangs out at Montgomery Mall with his friends, but has never gotten in trouble while at the mall.
He said he didn't think Saturday night's sweep had anything to do with race, but did think stopping every car was overkill.
"I think if they had a problem, they didn't have to do all that and stop every car," he said. "The way people are talking about it they say the police were being racist, but I don't think that is true."
Robert Johnson, who manages the Great American Cookie store, said the area right in front of his shop is a favorite for loitering youths.
"The main problem we have is they gather in front of the store and block the counter so customers can't order," he said. "We ask them to move but they won't."
Johnson said he should be supportive of the Police Department's efforts Saturday night, but the $500 ticket he got for not having proof of insurance has left him bitter.
He said he wished he was told about the sweep beforehand so he could prepare.
Berlin said she was the only mall official who knew about the checkpoints prior to Saturday night.
"The only way you can have an effective checkpoint is to check everyone," Wilson said."We knew there would be a few employees and a few patrons that got stopped, but we couldn't avoid that."
Wilson and Berlin said that if the situation at Montgomery Mall doesn't improve, more action will be taken.
"That mall is too important to this city, too important to the economy, too important to the vendors out there and to the people who work there," Wilson said. "Whatever we have to do to make sure the employees and shoppers have a good safe environment to shop and work in, that is what we will have to do."

 

[Smiley]

Oh Well, I guess one will not be able to drop their "Chitlins" at the Mall anymore.

 

[AAMU Alum]

These are the kinds of problems you have, when there are not enough venues for young people to get together with their peers. While I'm sure some of the kids can get rowdy, I hate when ALL have to suffer for the actions of a few. When I was a teenager, my contemporaries and I often went to malls to meet. The lemonade vendors would even come from their stands to sell to us.


The world was a different place then, I suppose.

 

[Smiley]

AAMU Alum you are right. It is a combination of a lot of things. I remember in the 'H'ville they had the same problem. The mall imposed a rule kids couldn't be in the mall w/o an adult. I, keep my children busy but it cost us money. I am blessed that we can afford the lessons, movies, golfing, tennis, basketball, etc. The other thing is the church center is open on Friday nights. I know it has not exploded out of control right now but the teens are hanging out in parking lots of convenience stores. They just need a place to chill.

 

[Attack Dog]

I knew it would just be a matter time, the day of the police state is coming. In order to establish the police state money will be needed which will come from the patrons.

The only way to solve this problem and the majority of the problems in our society is for peole to take personal responsibility. a lot of children are raising themselves and I don't think the ones that I've seen cause problems in malls and other places have been juniors and seniors in high school. It's sad when you have curfews imposed on children by people other than their parents. It's criminal for children to be unsupervised.

 

[Bartram]

A place to chill.

What kinds of places would yall suggest as places to chill?

Do you think if they had places to chill, the confrontations/fights would abate?

 

[Bartram]

Additional takes.

Here's more fallout from this situation. Again, my two previous questions still stand after your consideration of these additional takes:

Trouble at mall astounds leaders

By Regan Loyola Connolly
Montgomery Advertiser

Security video that shows disorderly youths, fistfights, frightened shoppers and panicked merchants at the Montgomery Mall shocked Montgomery church leaders into vowing to condemn the behavior from their pulpits.
The clergy and church leaders said Thursday they plan to tell their congregations that parents need to be more accountable for their children. The May 24 video they viewed showed in detail what prompted police to set up checkpoints at the Montgomery Mall on Saturday night.
Larry Armstead, an assistant to Mayor Bobby Bright, arranged for the community members to see and discuss the video with Montgomery Police Chief John Wilson.
After watching the tapes, the group agreed that something had to be done.
"We have to be getting in the homes and we have to be getting to the parents," said Johnnie Carr, a longtime civil rights activist. "We have worked too hard and too long to be torn down by a situation like this."
The Rev. Ezekiel Pettway of Maggie St. Baptist Church said churches have to do more to keep young people out of trouble. The video also prompted him to sympathize with mall shop owners.
"We need to put ourselves in the place of someone who owns a business at Montgomery Mall," he said. "If businesses leave, what will happen to the mall?"
The checkpoints yielded 189 citations and five arrests, but were met with opposition from some community members. A group of black elected officials held a news conference Thursday to voice their disapproval of the sweep.
Wilson said he was surprised the department was accused of targeting blacks during the checkpoint.
"The racial issue caught me totally off guard," he said. "It never entered any of our conversations or my thoughts."
Wilson said he first heard the accusations from callers to talk radio shows Tuesday morning.
The church leaders who spoke after watching the video agreed that the police action was not racially motivated.
"People say it is a racial problem but I don't see a white kid in the video," said the Rev. D.B. Bennett of King Hill Baptist Church.
The May 24 video showed a throng of young people that packed the main corridor of the mall at 8:55 p.m., just before closing time.
A small group of teenagers began beating another teen with their fists, attracting a large crowd. Police and mall security stepped in to try to break up the fight, but the combatants continued punching and kicking, moving around the officers.
Eventually, the fight was broken up, but Wilson said someone then yelled "gun." That prompted the panicked crowd to scramble through the mall. Shop owners could be seen ducking behind their counters or closing the gates on the fronts of their stores.
The video then showed the same teenagers who were involved in the fight casually walking through the mall, ignoring law enforcement's directions to exit.
Activity in the parking lot of the shopping center, another spot for trouble, also was shown.
Wilson said that after the mall closes on Saturday night, people get in their cars and drive around the mall in a ritualized caravan. He said store employees have complained that the loitering crowds harass them in an intimidating fashion.
In one video clip, a female shopper was beaten badly by four or more assailants in the parking lot.
On another video clip from a different day there was a fight at The Finish Line inside the mall while the checkpoint was being set up outside. City officials said there was damage done at the store as a result of the fight. Crowds could be seen on the video pouring to the store and peering through the windows, as police and security officers ran to the scene of the scuffle and exited with a male in handcuffs.
Before showing the video, Wilson explained to the community members why the department set up the checkpoints Saturday night.
Wilson said Mall Manager Donna Berlin first came to him three and a half years ago and asked for help in curbing some of the problems at the mall. Loitering, fighting, excessive use of profanity and the presence of weapons and drugs were among her concerns.
Mall officials installed a $150,000 camera system a year ago to aid mall personnel in spotting trouble makers. The cameras can be controlled to sweep an area or focus on a particular trouble spot or individual.
Wilson said the department increased the number of officers at the mall, but the problems continued.
A fight in the food court a little over a year ago that included youths throwing metal chairs led the department to increase its presence once again.
Berlin and a group of mall executives met with Wilson July 9 to discuss options for dealing with the problems.
The group decided the checkpoint was the solution.
On Thursday, Wilson told the church group that if managers at Eastdale Mall or The Shoppes at EastChase asked for help from the department, he would provide it.
"If I get a call like I did from (the Montgomery Mall manager), I swear on my Bible that I would be there," he said.


EDITORIAL
Mall security troubling issue

It's difficult to believe that anyone who views the security videotapes of recent fights among young people at Montgomery Mall would have much of a problem with the mall operators asking the Montgomery police for help.
And while some might legitimately question details of the check point operation set up by police last Saturday evening, the security videotapes show a serious problem that deserved a serious reaction by police and mall security personnel.
A videotape of a fight that broke out in May near the mall's food court at closing time shows what police and security are struggling to deal with. When about a half-dozen young people start fighting, a large crowd gathers, hampering efforts of security people to break it up. The fight dies down, then breaks out again. The tape then shows the crowd fleeing (police say someone yelled that they saw a gun) as shop workers ducked behind counters and pulled the gates to their shops closed.
Such fights are an invitation to disaster. If they had been left unaddressed, it would only be a matter of time before someone was seriously hurt or killed.
Was the check point approach, in which police blocked exits from the mall and checked cars, the best approach? Certainly it would not have been if it were first reaction to the problem.
But police and mall officials describe a series of other attempts over the past year to deal with security issues, including adding police on the scene, increasing security personnel and banning troublemakers and charging them with trespass if they return. None of those attempts worked.
A group of about a dozen African American ministers and church lay leaders viewed the security videotapes Thursday afternoon, and all those who spoke were clearly were disturbed by the fights and other behavior at the mall. No one was critical of the police action.
Montgomery Police Chief John Wilson admitted to one procedural flaw in the check point operation -- not having enough exits for traffic from the mall. That caused delays in checking cars.
But Wilson defended checking every car, pointing out that checking only some vehicles would leave the department open to charges of "profiling." He's right. If this technique is used again, everyone -- white, black, young, old, even mall employees -- should continue to be checked.
It's easy for politicians to criticize after the fact, but so far the alternatives they have suggested are few and far between. One of the few specific suggestions -- arming the private mall security officers -- seems designed to increase the chances of someone getting seriously injured or killed. Let's keep the guns in the hands of trained, sworn officers.
Mall officials are caught between a rock and a hard place. The mall's marketing director told the African American church leaders Thursday that the mall management wants people at the mall, including young people, but only if they are willing to behave in a way that does not hurt the family atmosphere they are trying to promote.
Mall officials knew the crackdown would irritate some legitimate customers, but felt it was necessary to prevent an escalation of problems -- which, by the way, mall and police officials say have been limited to Saturday nights.
How to deal with such problems is a legitimate subject for political, church and community leaders to discuss. But those should focus on positive suggestions on what can be done to keep and attract businesses and to make them safe for all citizens.
And the church leaders who viewed the videotape Thursday are right about another thing -- this is a problem that ultimately only parents can solve.