Can we have a DEI conversation?

[Da Sleeper]

Why are Black people associated with being face of DEI when Black people make up only 4% of DEI hires? Why do Black people get so up tight about a program Black people don't benefit from?

Beneficiaries of DEI per the Department of Labor:
1.) Caucasian Wonen
2.) Latino / Hispanic
3.) Asians
4.) Native Americans
5.) Disabled
6.) Veterans
7.) LGBT...
8.)Black Americans

Black people were nearly 100% of affirmative action but only 4% of DEI. WHAT HAPPENED...?

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[Herbert77060]

Short answer? They want to demonize it.

 

[Da Sleeper]

Numbers and statistics are very misleading. With that being said, Numerical methods and statistical analysis are distinct approaches to solving problems, with Numerical methods and statistical analysis are distinct approaches to solving problems, with numerical methods approximating solutions to mathematical problems, often involving complex calculations, while statistical analysis involves collecting, interpreting, and presenting data to identify patterns, trends, and draw conclusions about uncertainties. With that being said DEI does hurt our community especially in white collar high paying jobs. There were over 250-300 black women who lost their jobs because of DEI policies. The truth is many of those women are the bread winners in black households. The federal, state, city and county government are the largest employers in America and the world. Close to 18-20% of black people work for the federal government. Given that state and local governments employ roughly 19 million workers, this would translate to around 3.4 million Black employees across state and local levels. Let's add in the contract positions that federal, state, city and county governments and the numbers go even higher. The state governments have 3 million blacks and the federal has 3.9 million blacks as employees that means over 7 million black people in positions. Now let's go to the construction jobs whether it's roads, buildings or schools. Let's go to the janitorial staff, the security, the landscapers on contracts. The numbers go even higher. Most Americans don't realize the federal government buys pencils, paper, cars, uniforms, food processing and the list goes on from private contractors too in large numbers. So yes, DEI does affect us in large ways. How could anyone live in America and deny this. If anyone can dispute these numbers, I would be glad to be proven wrong! If you cut those jobs Black America is in trouble!

the U.S. federal government is the nation's largest employer, but this refers to civilian employees, not the combined federal, state, and local government workforce. While the federal government, which includes agencies like the Department of Defense, employs around 3 million people, the larger government sector includes state and local governments, which together employ roughly 19.58 million people as of 2023.

Federal Government as an Employer

• Largest Single Employer: The federal government is the largest single employer in the U.S.
  
  
• Civilian Employees:It employs approximately 3 million civilian workers.
  • Largest Employer in the World: This makes the U.S. federal government the largest employer in the world.
  • 
    
  • State and Local Government Employment
    • • Significant Portion of Government Workforce:
        .
        State and local governments employ a much larger number of people than the federal government.
      • Combined Workforce:
        .
        In 2023, approximately 19.58 million people worked for state and local governments in the U.S.

Doesn't answer the question.

I find it odd you only referenced Black Women in your comment. What about the men? How about referencing Black Americans as a whole whom have lost jobs.

None of that addresses Black people associated as the face of DEI.

•Black people are the least beneficiaries and this fact can not be disputed.

•DEI is larger than the federal government. I know that is your ticker because it's personal for you.

•At the end of the day Only 4% of DEI hires are Black.

•How and why are Black people the face of the initiative.

Oh and FYI: As of August 2025, at least 148,000 federal employees have left the government. Loss of government jobs is not just a Black issue. I know you want it to be but it's not.

 

[Da Sleeper]

Short answer? They want to demonize it.

Should Black people care if it's demonized? Black people benefit from the program least.

Black people were nearly 100% of affirmative action. Now we're only 4% of DEI. Why should we fight for everyone else to win?

 

[Da Sleeper]

So let me get this right. The black community depends on money in a capitalistic society. With no income and low paying jobs left you are saying it doesn't hurt the black community? So you are saying only 148000 left the government? Come on I know you are joking right? Let me give you a hint its close to one million have been laid off. You are talking about buy outs. Those 148K retired. I also notice you didn't address the 250-300K black women who lost jobs due to DEI policies. How does that not hurt our community? Single parent homes with no income doesn't hurt our community?

You can't run your azz in here and expect me to beat to your drum. I asked specific questions Which you didn't answer. Your concerns is not what the topic of this thread is. Their is a specific topic discuss that or start your own thread and talk about anything you want. Not being able to stay on topic is a big part of why Black people can never come to a consensus. You're one of those people that make meetings take way longer than they should. You're a constant agent of chaos.

 

[Da Sleeper]

I am out. Have fun. You have self control issues. I will let you have them. I am not going to get into it with you because you aren't worth it. I erased my comments and will let you have at it. You have an agenda, and I don't. No where did I address you in a derogatory way. You brought that into this conversation. So I will keep it moving Sir! No need to address you.

Thank you
I have a topic you have an agenda.
Have a good evening Agent C.

 

[Herbert77060]

Should Black people care if it's demonized? Black people benefit from the program least.

Black people were nearly 100% of affirmative action. Now we're only 4% of DEI. Why should we fight for everyone else to win?

Caring or not caring does not matter. The problem is how we are perceived and how that perception dictates opportunities.

 

[Rated R Superstar]

Why are Black people associated with being face of DEI when Black people make up only 4% of DEI hires? Why do Black people get so up tight about a program Black people don't benefit from?

Black people are associated with DEI (insidiously) by a particular segment of the population to delegitimize it and suggest that Black folks are getting extraordinary or undeserved treatment.

There's a reason why conservatives have gone after it so hard.

Additionally, Black people get uptight about attacks against DEI because it's not just about the workplace. DEI has/had tentacles in education, health care, and even public policy -- all of those things impact, to varying degrees, black people.

 

[LAW DAWG]

I wish we, black people, were not so mentally and emotional invested in the duality of liberal vs. conservative, left or right or democrat vs. republican.

In my opinion, the reason why black people have been purposely associated as the prime beneficiaries of DEI programs is for the same reason we were purposely associated as the prime beneficiary affirmative action programs. Culturally conservative white men have a problem with how far white women have advanced since the 60's because of both policies. The strategy behind putting a black face on those policies/programs is the same now as it has always been; it makes it a lot easier to target and do away with.

I don't believe it is the DEI policies/programs black people get up tight about. Instead, I think it is the barrage of attacks a lot of black people are reacting to in response to being labeled unqualified, unworthy and unfit.

Additionally, I believe their is a segment of black folks that are not up tight or angry about the erosion of DEI at all, but instead see value in it to the extent black people benefit from it no matter how small the percentage.

 

[ECSU_NCCU_Christopher]

Affirmative Action are set of anti-discrimination laws, certain people have demonize the words affirmative action into meaning something that it is not. It is no different than those folks demonizing black people for wanting their freedom from enslavement and then those same folks said black people were lazy for not wanting to be enslaved.

Some black people are upset over the closing of DEI programs because it is seen as another attempt to allow discrimination against black people. You also have to take into the account the indirect benefits, as is eastern North Carolina the following things have happen because of the stopping of DEI programs:

Elizabeth City State lost its' funding for their ROTC program

East Carolina lost its' funding for their rural doctors program (this program paid the tuition for those in medical school and in return they have to practice medicine in a rural areas for a certain number of year). This means a decrease in doctors in rural areas and a lack of choices for medical help.

 

[Da Sleeper]

I wish we, black people, were not so mentally and emotional invested in the duality of liberal vs. conservative, left or right or democrat vs. republican.

THIS

In my opinion, the reason why black people have been purposely associated as the prime beneficiaries of DEI programs is for the same reason we were purposely associated as the prime beneficiary affirmative action programs. Culturally conservative white men have a problem with how far white women have advanced since the 60's because of both policies. The strategy behind putting a black face on those policies/programs is the same now as it has always been; it makes it a lot easier to target to do away with.

EXACTLY, Black Americans are being used coming and going. Crazy thing i recently learned is President Obama in 2010 was one of the one who pushed us to be more inclusive moving to DEI from Affirmative action.

I don't believe it is the DEI policies/programs black people get up tight about. Instead, I think it is the barrage of attacks a lot of black people are reacting to in response to being labeled unqualified, unworthy and unfit.

Good point that should be discussed/studied.

Additionally, I believe their is a segment of black folks that are not up tight or angry about the erosion of DEI at all, but instead see value in it to the extent black people benefit from it no matter how small the percentage.

This is what i don't understand. Why we're willing to use so much political capital for crumbs.

 

[Da Sleeper]

Affirmative Action are set of anti-discrimination laws, certain people have demonize the words affirmative action into meaning something that it is not. It is no different than those folks demonizing black people for wanting their freedom from enslavement and then those same folks said black people were lazy for not wanting to be enslaved.

Some black people are upset over the closing of DEI programs because it is seen as another attempt to allow discrimination against black people. You also have to take into the account the indirect benefits, as is eastern North Carolina the following those have happen because of the stopping of DEI programs:

Elizabeth City State lost its' funding for their ROTC program

East Carolina lost its' funding for their rural doctors program (this program paid the tuition for those in medical school and in return they have to practice medicine in a rural areas for a certain number of year). This means a decrease in doctors in rural areas and a lack of choices for medical help.

That's a raw deal. I still believe Black Americans should put our political power behind programs specifically to benefit Black Americans. Racism has always been a part of America it's woven into the fabric of the country. Even though, I believe Black Americans have equal or greater opportunity to succeed than 80-90% of the people on the planet. How do Black Americans refocus/reset our shared community values to education and success?

 

[LAW DAWG]

EXACTLY, Black Americans are being used coming and going. Crazy thing i recently learned is President Obama in 2010 was one of the one who pushed us to be more inclusive moving to DEI from Affirmative action.

Remember, President Obama taught constitutional law classes at the University of Chicago Law School. He knew affirmative action policies were on life support after a ruling from a 2003 Supreme Court Case, Grutter v. Bollinger, which basically signaled an end to affirmative action by no later than twenty-five years down the road. The ruling made a lot of head-lines because late Justice Sandra Day O'Connor cast the deciding vote to save it, but suggested a sunset date twenty-five years into the future.

I can't say for sure, but it appears DEI policies were promoted out of reaction, to Justice O'Connors opinion, to address the inevitable demise of affirmative action by future Supreme Court rulings.

This is what i don't understand. Why we're willing to use so much political capital for crumbs.

We have used political capital to fight for it, but just how much is debatable. I think because the enemies of the policies have succeeded at associating us with them it is assumed we are the ones with everything to lose, thus it is thought and suggested in many circles we are the ones that fight like hell to keep it. In my opinion, there is not enough evidence to support that notion but perception is reality for some.

That's a raw deal. I still believe Black Americans should put our political power behind programs specifically to benefit Black Americans. Racism has always been a part of America it's woven into the fabric of the country. Even though, I believe Black Americans have equal or greater opportunity to succeed than 80-90% of the people on the planet. How do Black Americans refocus/reset our shared community values to education and success?

Now that is a good question. I think it is much harder to do that now than it would have been prior to social media, bots, algorithms and AI. I have to give that one some more thought, but a reset in that direction would advance us and there is plenty evidence of that.

 

[Herbert77060]

Remember, President Obama taught constitutional classes at the University of Chicago Law School. He knew affirmative action policies were on life support after a ruling from a 2003 Supreme Court Case, Grutter v. Bollinger, which basically signaled an end to affirmative action by no later than twenty-five years down the road. The ruling made a lot of head-lines because late Justice Sandra Day O'Connor cast the deciding vote to save it, but suggested a sunset date twenty-five into the future.

I can't say for sure, but it appears DEI policies were promoted out of reaction, to Justice O'Connors opinion, to address the inevitable demise of affirmative action by future Supreme Court rulings.


We have used political capital to fight for it, but just how much is debatable. I think because the enemies of the policies have succeeded at associating us with them it is assumed we are the ones with everything to lose, thus it is thought and suggested in many circles we are the ones that fight like hell to keep it. In my opinion, there is not enough evidence to support that notion but perception is reality for some.


Now that is a good question. I think it is much harder to do that now than it would have been prior to social media, bots, algorithms and AI. I have to give that one some more thought, but a reset in that direction would advance us and there is plenty evidence of that.

Our reset faces the problem of sabotage by those that do not want to see us succeed on a large scale. Every advancement we have made after the abolition of slavery, at some point, has been derailed. Whether we want to acknowledge it or not there are forces in this country that do not want to see us succeed en masse. I don't know if a reset is needed as much as none interference in our advancement.

The men of Independence Heights where I grew up, a self sustained community built by Black folk, turned the klan away twice when they came to burn it down. The derailment came in the form of being annexed into the city of Houston coupled with "integration".

 

[Da Sleeper]

Our reset faces the problem of sabotage by those that do not want to see us succeed on a large scale. Every advancement we have made after the abolition of slavery, at some point, has been derailed. Whether we want to acknowledge it or not there are forces in this country that do not want to see us succeed en masse. I don't know if a reset is needed as much as none interference in our advancement.

If non interference started today the criminals would control the community. Their has to be a change from celebrating criminal activities and lifestyles.

The biggest gathering my family has had since the pandemic was when a cousin was released from prison. Probably 20 have graduated from college, retired from jobs/military, started business that employ family, and had babies with little to no fanfare.

 

[Herbert77060]

If non interference started today the criminals would control the community. Their has to be a change from celebrating criminal activities and lifestyles.

The biggest gathering my family has had since the pandemic was when a cousin was released from prison. Probably 20 have graduated from college, retired from jobs/military, started business that employ family, and had babies with little to no fanfare.

I don't think the criminal element would take over but I get your point about celebrations being misplaced. I include throwing baby showers for pregnancies for unmarried women. Love the babies once they are here but celebrating unwed pregnancies is an issue for me especially for teenage mothers.

 

[skyvolt2000]

Good point that should be discussed/studied.

There is NOTHING to discuss.
We get told to get an education or experience. We get told that constantly. Yet when we do get that training and education-we get EXCUSE for us to be passed over or not advance. Meanwhile we see underqualified others get everything.

Part of the reason to your question-

•How and why are Black people the face of the initiative.

We tend to bring out the WORST in folks. You can toss out all the data that you want but folks only see us and that is all they need to go off.

Along with when it's US in charge-we tend to go out and make things diverse by CHOICE and not by ORDER. We are going to make your company diverse whether you like it or not.
Example both Regina King and Michael B Jordan REQUIRE the folks who work on their movies and shows be diverse.

Lets not forget misinformation plays a HUGE part-many think DEI means you MUST hire a black person. They don't think of all those other races. Because a lot of time when those jobs are posted-they are NOT posted in areas where we are.

As of August 2025, at least 148,000 federal employees have left the government. Loss of government jobs is not just a Black issue.

Yes it will hurt every American but as I have seen in comment sections elsewhere-it's filled with folks celebrating that BLACK FOLKS especially BLACK WOMEN are being fired. They don't see all those other folks.

Too many times they aim for us more than others. How many attacks on black women have we seen by the President?

 

[Rated R Superstar]

I don't think the criminal element would take over but I get your point about celebrations being misplaced. I include throwing baby showers for pregnancies for unmarried women. Love the babies once they are here but celebrating unwed pregnancies is an issue for me especially for teenage mothers.

Baby showers are an essential show of communal support for the mother/parents and to alleviate (to an extent) the inherent financial burden of providing some necessities for the child(ren).

Caring for children effectively takes a community (ideally), whether the parents or the mother is married.

 

[Herbert77060]

Baby showers are an essential show of communal support for the mother/parents and to alleviate (to an extent) the inherent financial burden of providing some necessities for the child(ren).

Caring for children effectively takes a community (ideally), whether the parents or the mother is married.

I see it as celebrating an unwed pregnancy.

 

[ECSU_NCCU_Christopher]

That's a raw deal. I still believe Black Americans should put our political power behind programs specifically to benefit Black Americans. Racism has always been a part of America it's woven into the fabric of the country. Even though, I believe Black Americans have equal or greater opportunity to succeed than 80-90% of the people on the planet. How do Black Americans refocus/reset our shared community values to education and success?

I really don't know how solve our issues, as it seems when we start to make improvements something happens and we are in a new situation. The NAACP had to sue the City of Elizabeth City in the 1980s because of how they had the voting districts (as even though EC had a large black population, all the council members and the mayor were white). Now almost all the council members and the mayor are black, but the state has been gerrymander to the point that the Republicans have a lock over the state legislature. When the last Republican Governor left office and a Democrat Governor was elected, the legislature went about striping powers away from the Governor and other Democrat elected officials.

The head of the Democrat party in the state said that the party needs to pay attention to actual wants and needs of the black population in the state in order to increase voting turned out, but the district are rigged to give black population less say then we had in the previous decades.

 

[Da Sleeper]

There is NOTHING to discuss.
We get told to get an education or experience. We get told that constantly. Yet when we do get that training and education-we get EXCUSE for us to be passed over or not advance. Meanwhile we see underqualified others get everything.

Part of the reason to your question-


We tend to bring out the WORST in folks. You can toss out all the data that you want but folks only see us and that is all they need to go off.

Along with when it's US in charge-we tend to go out and make things diverse by CHOICE and not by ORDER. We are going to make your company diverse whether you like it or not.
Example both Regina King and Michael B Jordan REQUIRE the folks who work on their movies and shows be diverse.

Lets not forget misinformation plays a HUGE part-many think DEI means you MUST hire a black person. They don't think of all those other races. Because a lot of time when those jobs are posted-they are NOT posted in areas where we are.


Yes it will hurt every American but as I have seen in comment sections elsewhere-it's filled with folks celebrating that BLACK FOLKS especially BLACK WOMEN are being fired. They don't see all those other folks.

Too many times they aim for us more than others. How many attacks on black women have we seen by the President?

Do you believe Black Americans share in the responsibility or have we been used and deceived? Historically Black Americans fought for other people harder than for ourselves? Example: Black Americans hold tightly to and fought for DEI. Black Americans fought so hard that "Black" became the face of the program. Although, Black Americans benefit least. Secondly, Black Americans have such a strong history of fighting for other marginalized groups that Latino people expected Black people help fight their immigration battle. They were mad when the majority of Black Americans decided to sit this one out. Do Black Americans continue fighting for everyone or is it time to put our own oxygen masks on first?

 

[Da Sleeper]

I really don't know how solve our issues, as it seems when we start to make improvements something happens and we are new situation. The NAACP had to sue the City of Elizabeth City in the 1980s because of how they had the voting districts (as even though EC had a large black population all the council members and the mayor was white). Now almost all the council members and the mayor are black, but the state has been gerrymander to the point that the Republicans have a lock over the state legislature. When the last Republican Governor left office and a Democrat Governor was elected, the legislature went about striping powers away from the Governor and other Democrat elected officials.

The head of the Democrat party in the state said that the party needs to pay attention to actual wants and needs of the black population in the state in order to increase voting turned out, but the district are rigged to give black population less say then we had in the previous decades.

Black Americans have been the democratic party's most loyal voter for the last at least 50 years. Many people feel that loyalty has produced little to nothing in return. How can anyone party ask a group to keep voting when that party can't find money for their need but finds Billions for illegals who can't vote?

 

[LAW DAWG]

There is NOTHING to discuss.
We get told to get an education or experience. We get told that constantly. Yet when we do get that training and education-we get EXCUSE for us to be passed over or not advance. Meanwhile we see underqualified others get everything.

The meritocracy game has always been part of the playbook to constantly deny and keep the masses black folks on the margins. Yet, late President Harry Truman had less than full year of education at a business college. That was good enough for him to be a U.S. Army Officer, Presiding Judge, U.S, Senator, Vice President and ultimately the President.

Life is short, do the best you can while you can. Long as their is a large enough contingent of committed white supremacists in charge, intent on cementing in white supremacy, there isn't much that is going to change structurally.

After graduating from Independence High School in 1901,Truman took classes at Spalding's Commercial College, a Kansas City business school. He studied bookkeeping, shorthand, and typing but stopped after a year

Harry S. Truman - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[skyvolt2000]

Black Americans have been the democratic party's most loyal voter for the last at least 50 years. Many people feel that loyalty has produced little to nothing in return. How can anyone party ask a group to keep voting when that party can't find money for their need but finds Billions for illegals who can't vote?

Maybe you should ask those black Democrats in office that. Who will gladly tell you how many bills get shot down by GOP and even some Democrats.

We get so focused on the White House-we forget every other seat-Congress, Governor, Mayor, School Board and more. Who ALSO stand in the way.
How much money for HBCUS have been blocked by a governor?
How much money has been REFUSED? Like we saw with Kerrville, Texas. Those girls died over politics.

WE failed the assignment. Because too many failed Civics and how our country works.

Oh those billions for illegals-make you cry about the GOP who also handed that money and perks over. Those red state farmers are not crying without reason.

 

[ECSU_NCCU_Christopher]

Black Americans have been the democratic party's most loyal voter for the last at least 50 years. Many people feel that loyalty has produced little to nothing in return. How can anyone party ask a group to keep voting when that party can't find money for their need but finds Billions for illegals who can't vote?

I would argue that Black Americans have been loyal to the particular party who has brought us the most results compared to the other party or in some cases that brought the less harm to us (general speaking). Black People, general speaking, don't have blind loyalty to a particular party as some people like to make out to be (in my opinion). Our voting patterns have been attune to what party's policies are in our best interests as whole.

We started out voting Republican and being part of the Republican party, then came the betrayal of pulling out federal troops from the south. The Republicans did this so that they would gain the presidency, but this resulted in Jim Crows laws being passed in the south and the black voting dropped (due to restrictions place on us officially and unofficially throughout the south). For the black people who could still vote, the pattern continue to be majority republican, but over time some policies from specific people within the Democratic party started to win some black people over (on the federal level and maybe on the state level).

Then the Dixiecrats revolt lead them to joining the republican party in mass and thus lead to them taking over the republican party (as Barry Goldwater stance against the Civil Rights Act of 1964 also help push blacks away from the Republican party), which spark the mass exodus of remaining black people from the party. Remember that Strom Thurmond and those of their elk were democrats and switched to Republicans in the 1960s.

While the information I provided is not the complete history, but it is enough to show why the shift toward the Democrats happen and why the percentages of black people are democrats today.

Ultimately we voted in officials to represent our best interests, but what has happen is those officials have voted against our best interest (like spending money on illegal immigrants). Black people are in a tough position, we don't always have the numbers to vote out officials when it comes to the democrats and there is not a big enough faction in the republican party that we could side with for the betterment of our interests. The Radical Republicans are long gone and those democrats that end up speaking up for black folks often get primaried out of office soon after or join the republican party in the hope they can start a new segment within the party.