HBCUs: The Backup Plan for D1 Knuckleheads


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TSU,
We don't give kids second chances academically. If Crowell was a star chess player or a regular student with 3.8, no one would have went out their way to get him. Let's be honest here, Crowell got a second chance cause he can sell tickets, get wins, make money for the school. It is business, nothing more, nothing less. That is NCAA sports in a nutshell.
 
If a kid has been enabled by adults, friends and coaches for most of his life due to his talent, then how can we lay full blame at the feet of the athlete?
 



The reason we are second choices is because even our Alumni don't send their kids to HBCUs!! Most first year HBCU grads send their kids to PWC's. The big state PWC is where most wanted to go, and they think lil Sally and Billy will get a better opportunity. I wish black folks would stop telling this lie to themselves and be truthful. Blacks feels as though white folks give them a better opportunity in life and being around them will some how make them culturally advanced. We have yet to understand the real basis for culture and diversity starts at home. The fruit don't fall to far from the tree. If your genes are bad genes, well your chlid got them too!!!!
 
Dammit SUJF we MUST have identically the same "dana"(dna). Word for word, my exact thoughts on "cradling." :read:

BTW, I'm not against 2nd chances so it was a good pickup. But, character assessment. How does one measure it?
 
Lastly, regarding the comprehension issue SUJF, you're dealing w/ a plethora of SWAC grads who prolly took advantage of that open enrollment bullshit lol so don't expect a decently intelligible conversation from many. I certainly don't :emlaugh:. Some are great... And then you have the "others" that are granted internet access. Wish they'd license www access lol. :lol:
 
jsupop33 said:
TSU,
We don't give kids second chances academically. If Crowell was a star chess player or a regular student with 3.8, no one would have went out their way to get him. Let's be honest here, Crowell got a second chance cause he can sell tickets, get wins, make money for the school. It is business, nothing more, nothing less. That is NCAA sports in a nutshell.
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Are you serious? Pops you know there are kids who don't do so well at Ole Miss or USM and transfer to JSU. The same way it happens at Texas or A&M and the transfer to TSU, Sam houston, or SFA. You may not call them "academic second chances", but it definitely is for those kids that transfer once they can't make the grades due to partying at the Big State school or simply not being able to handle larger classes. A number of kids that I know personally that transfered from UT, Baylor and UH to PV and TSU will tell you how grateful they are for a second chance. In many instances, HBCU alums that had a great experience reach out to those kids that have to come back "home" from academic mistakes too. Come on man, you cannot be that far removed to not know that happens.

Yes college sports is a business and we would not be after him if he could not run a football and sell tickets. No different than PWIs in that regard. However, to him ASU is giving him a second chance when a lot of FCS programs wouldn't touch him with the charges he is facing. It is a business move on the schools part, but to him and every other "lost" player that the FCS or JUCO has taken in, they see it as a second chance. As a coach that really believes in changing a kids life, I would see it as a win-win. I get wins on the field and I have the chance to help a kid turn in his life around. If I was a coach that would be my mindset.
 
Panther88 said:
Dammit SUJF we MUST have identically the same "dana"(dna). Word for word, my exact thoughts on "cradling." :read:

BTW, I'm not against 2nd chances so it was a good pickup. But, character assessment. How does one measure it?[/QUOTE]

Honestly P88 who knows. The kid is 19 and hopefully will learn and grow from this. But if Barlow does his best to instill pride, work ethic, ethicical decision making skills in this young man, while humbling him, and the kid still goes astray, then I think we will have our answer.
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kendrick said:
If a kid has been enabled by adults, friends and coaches for most of his life due to his talent, then how can we lay full blame at the feet of the athlete?
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Were the adults, teachers, principals, parents, or any other positively advising individual riding dirty w/ him and telling him to commit a crime(s)? Oh, it was just he you say?

Right. It was his decision and his decision alone. THAT is where 100% of the fault lies. It's no one else's fault that he didn't choose to properly execute the gray matter between his ears when it was time to choose right/wrong.
 
TSUGIRL07 said:
Panther88 said:
Dammit SUJF we MUST have identically the same "dana"(dna). Word for word, my exact thoughts on "cradling." :read:

BTW, I'm not against 2nd chances so it was a good pickup. But, character assessment. How does one measure it?[/QUOTE]

Honestly P88 who knows. The kid is 19 and hopefully will learn and grow from this. But if Barlow does his best to instill pride, work ethic, ethicical decision making skills in this young man, while humbling him, and the kid still goes astray, then I think we will have our answer.
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I hope it works out for the young man and that he takes advantage of this great opportunity presented before him, unlike so many others who was in his same position.
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TSUGIRL07 said:
Are you serious? Pops you know there are kids who don't do so well at Ole Miss or USM and transfer to JSU. The same way it happens at Texas or A&M and the transfer to TSU, Sam houston, or SFA. You may not call them "academic second chances", but it definitely is for those kids that transfer once they can't make the grades due to partying at the Big State school or simply not being able to handle larger classes. A number of kids that I know personally that transfered from UT, Baylor and UH to PV and TSU will tell you how grateful they are for a second chance. In many instances, HBCU alums that had a great experience reach out to those kids that have to come back "home" from academic mistakes too. Come on man, you cannot be that far removed to not know that happens.

Yes college sports is a business and we would not be after him if he could not run a football and sell tickets. No different than PWIs in that regard. However, to him ASU is giving him a second chance when a lot of FCS programs wouldn't touch him with the charges he is facing. It is a business move on the schools part, but to him and every other "lost" player that the FCS or JUCO has taken in, they see it as a second chance. As a coach that really believes in changing a kids life, I would see it as a win-win. I get wins on the field and I have the chance to help a kid turn in his life around. If I was a coach that would be my mindset.
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Let me clarify. That is not what I meant. Yes, we accept those transfers (works both ways too, know quite a few JSU cats who went to USM) but we are not going out our way to recruit academic superstars who get in legal trouble. If Crowell would have been a regular student with a 3.96 and got these same charges, no one would have been calling him asking him to transfer. That is what I meant.

Let's be honest. Barlow, Comegy, Williams and crew aren't reaching out to cats in some act of charity. They are bringing in these cats because they can run, throw, catch, etc... These coaches don't give one ounce of dayum about the personal issues of the Jamal Pittman's, Crowell's, or Tavaris Jackson's of the world. They see a chance to give their team a competitive edge. Let's stop acting like we are doing some act of charity and admit that we are simply making business decisions.


Hell, you can say the same about those regular transfers. We don't care about what happened at Ole Miss, we see tuition dollars.
 
Panther88 said:
Were the adults, teachers, principals, parents, or any other positively advising individual riding dirty w/ him and telling him to commit a crime(s)? Oh, it was just he you say?

Right. It was his decision and his decision alone. THAT is where 100% of the fault lies. It's no one else's fault that he didn't choose to properly execute the gray matter between his ears when it was time to choose right/wrong.
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But if that kid is never seriously reprimanded by those in authority positions for the minor incidents he/she is involved in prior years, then how does one expect the youngster to make responsible decisions when it comes to other matters?
 
TSUGIRL07 said:
to him ASU is giving him a second chance when a lot of FCS programs wouldn't touch him with the charges he is facing.
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I disagree with that part. As heralded as this kid is, schools were probably still after this kid. Of course, you'll probably hear/read differently now, but let's not kid ourselves.
 



mighty hornet said:
I disagree with that part. As heralded as this kid is, schools were probably still after this kid. Of course, you'll probably hear/read differently now, but let's not kid ourselves.
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I agree it's about whether or not this kid could make a difference on the field and fill their pockets with money. Now I will bet $100 this kid gets right.
 
mighty hornet said:
I disagree with that part. As heralded as this kid is, schools were probably still after this kid. Of course, you'll probably hear/read differently now, but let's not kid ourselves.
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The coaches at Montana, App State, and Georgia State were quoted when it first happened saying they had rules against allowing players in with a certain level of disciplinary problems. I tried to find where I read it, but I could not find it again. Could have been a publicity stunt for their administration and alums, but a few programs did come out and say they were not interested when asked about accepting FBS transfers with certain discipline problems. I think the only other program that publicly was after him was Jacksonville State.
 
TSUGIRL07 said:
The coaches at Montana, App State, and Georgia State were quoted when it first happened saying they had rules against allowing players in with a certain level of disciplinary problems. I tried to find where I read it, but I could not find it again. Could have been a publicity stunt for their administration and alums, but a few programs did come out and say they were not interested when asked about accepting FBS transfers with certain discipline problems. I think the only other program that publicly was after him was Jacksonville State.
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of course it was. Crowell was ranked the top RB in the country coming out of hs just a year ago and on the field, had a good freshman year in the SEC. If after the arrest, he had said he wanted to go to Ga State or App State, you can bet those coaches would've been singing a different tune.
 
TSUGIRL07 said:
The coaches at Montana, App State, and Georgia State were quoted when it first happened saying they had rules against allowing players in with a certain level of disciplinary problems. I tried to find where I read it, but I could not find it again. Could have been a publicity stunt for their administration and alums, but a few programs did come out and say they were not interested when asked about accepting FBS transfers with certain discipline problems. I think the only other program that publicly was after him was Jacksonville State.
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We are not getting the players that App State and Montana get. As I said a month ago, there are some NFL scouts who basically hold transfering to the SWAC against some players when it comes draft assessment time. However, I am sure talent and performance can kill that.
 
jsupop33 said:
Let me clarify. That is not what I meant. Yes, we accept those transfers (works both ways too, know quite a few JSU cats who went to USM) but we are not going out our way to recruit academic superstars who get in legal trouble. If Crowell would have been a regular student with a 3.96 and got these same charges, no one would have been calling him asking him to transfer. That is what I meant.

Let's be honest. Barlow, Comegy, Williams and crew aren't reaching out to cats in some act of charity. They are bringing in these cats because they can run, throw, catch, etc... These coaches don't give one ounce of dayum about the personal issues of the Jamal Pittman's, Crowell's, or Tavaris Jackson's of the world. They see a chance to give their team a competitive edge. Let's stop acting like we are doing some act of charity and admit that we are simply making business decisions.


Hell, you can say the same about those regular transfers. We don't care about what happened at Ole Miss, we see tuition dollars.
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I know what you are saying, but maybe I am naive enough to think that some coaches also care for the benefit of giving the kid a second chance. Yes he can run, but you also risk it backfiring on you. You have to care enough to take the time to work with a kid that comes in with baggage.

The regular kid transfering is a whole different thing. How would we know that a smart GDI kid got into trouble? Those type of things aren't typically highly publicized. So as I mentioned it generally is the HBCU grad in that ousted students life to "recruit the kid" to transfer to the HBCU. Does the institution themselves see tuition dollar signs? Of course, as we both agree on Higher Ed is a business. However, there are some individuals (coaches, professor, and alums) at every institution, HBCU and PWI, that will take a chance on a suspect kid because they genuinely want to see them get a second chance and reach their potential. In football, again, it is a win-win. You get a competive edge to win on the field and have an opportunity to change a kids life.
Yes colleges and universities are making business decisions, but they are also assuming risk by taking a chance on kids like this. You have to have some ounce of genuiness to do that, because not everyone would and you don't have to.

I get what you are saying, and honestly I don't totally disagree with you because I know what you are saying occurs. I just have a more optimistic approach to the situation.
 
mighty hornet said:
of course it was. Crowell was ranked the top RB in the country coming out of hs just a year ago and on the field, had a good freshman year in the SEC. If after the arrest, he had said he wanted to go to Ga State or App State, you can bet those coaches would've been singing a different tune.
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I would agree they would touch him after it becomes official that he just got probation. Right now it is just a rumor that the charges will be dropped with probabtion as an option. He is still facing five years in prison and not a lot of coaches would take a chance on that.
 
TSUGIRL07 said:
I know what you are saying, but maybe I am naive enough to think that some coaches also care for the benefit of giving the kid a second chance. Yes he can run, but you also risk it backfiring on you. You have to care enough to take the time to work with a kid that comes in with baggage.

The regular kid transfering is a whole different thing. How would we know that a smart GDI kid got into trouble? Those type of things aren't typically highly publicized. So as I mentioned it generally is the HBCU grad in that ousted students life to "recruit the kid" to transfer to the HBCU. Does the institution themselves see tuition dollar signs? Of course, as we both agree on Higher Ed is a business. However, there are some individuals (coaches, professor, and alums) at every institution, HBCU and PWI, that will take a chance on a suspect kid because they genuinely want to see them get a second chance and reach their potential. In football, again, it is a win-win. You get a competive edge to win on the field and have an opportunity to change a kids life.
Yes colleges and universities are making business decisions, but they are also assuming risk by taking a chance on kids like this. You have to have some ounce of genuiness to do that, because not everyone would and you don't have to.
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:tup:
good post
 
jsupop33 said:
Kendrick, stop babying the man.
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He is NOT babying the man. He is telling the truth. I work in the school system and can confirm everything Kendrick is saying.


It's no one else's fault that he didn't choose to properly execute the gray matter between his ears when it was time to choose right/wrong.
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How can a kid know that if we are a society keep rewarding bad behavior? And even defend it? Especially the black community and we wonder why we are in the mess that we are?


Most of these kids don't know what accountability is. Any negative behavior is rewarded and defended.

Guys like this kid have too many enablers around him. Even if someone was to point out (blank) is wrong-there are 50 folks calling that guy a "hater" or "don't listen to him because you make more money than him."

We all on this board want to hold the boy accountable for his actions. Many of us believe in second chances.

However if I was the coach-he wouldn't be on my team. I am NOT in the business of second chances. I am in the business of graduation players and winning games. I am going to do what other schools do-go after the guys who do right and get passed over by other teams for knuckleheads. Because I don't know who else is going tune me out if I keep getting these knuckleheads.


Could have been a publicity stunt for their administration and alums, but a few programs did come out and say they were not interested when asked about accepting FBS transfers with certain discipline problems.
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Let me translate-the alum and student body probably said don't bring him here. He might end up in worst shape at those schools.

If after the arrest, he had said he wanted to go to Ga State or App State, you can bet those coaches would've been singing a different tune.
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Not if the folks paying the coach's salary say NO. Especially if they can get someone with more talent and less baggage on the team.
 
TSUGIRL07 said:
I know what you are saying, but maybe I am naive enough to think that some coaches also care for the benefit of giving the kid a second chance. Yes he can run, but you also risk it backfiring on you. You have to care enough to take the time to work with a kid that comes in with baggage.

The regular kid transfering is a whole different thing. How would we know that a smart GDI kid got into trouble? Those type of things aren't typically highly publicized. So as I mentioned it generally is the HBCU grad in that ousted students life to "recruit the kid" to transfer to the HBCU. Does the institution themselves see tuition dollar signs? Of course, as we both agree on Higher Ed is a business. However, there are some individuals (coaches, professor, and alums) at every institution, HBCU and PWI, that will take a chance on a suspect kid because they genuinely want to see them get a second chance and reach their potential. In football, again, it is a win-win. You get a competive edge to win on the field and have an opportunity to change a kids life.
Yes colleges and universities are making business decisions, but they are also assuming risk by taking a chance on kids like this. You have to have some ounce of genuiness to do that, because not everyone would and you don't have to.

I get what you are saying, and honestly I don't totally disagree with you because I know what you are saying occurs. I just have a more optimistic approach to the situation.
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Life is about risk, business is about risk. Coaches have one performance measure when it all boils down to it. Either you win or you are fired. Let me break down the business model for you.

Universities are conglomerates. The President is a CEO, the AD is a VP for Sports operations, and the head coach is a portfolio/investment manager. Everybody is driving towards two goals, to win and to make money.

The AD's job as the VP for Sports operations is pretty broad. They have to raise capital, hire and evaluate portfolio managers as well ensure that sports operations have everything they need to be successful.

The head coach is a portfolio manager. His job is to find and manage investments. The portfolio he acquires ultimately has to perform up to investors (read: fans, boosters, media) expectations or he will be fired. He is held to strict standard because he is actually the one spending the company’s and investor’s money.

Just as in the business world, there are different tiers of competition. Larger, richer firms are quicker to cut investments that prove to come with too much risk. They have the ability to easily replace those investments with something similar because their assets allow them a much broader pool to shop from.

Lower tier schools don’t have as wide of a pool to choose from so they are more inclined to hold on to riskier investments that they believe can provide substantial return. So, if they see an investment that has substantial promise but has run into structural or legal problems and can now be acquired for cheap, they jump at the chance. The same investment that UCLA was paying $54k a year to maintain, Jackson State can now acquire for $9k a year. So even if it doesn’t work out for Jackson State, it only cost them $9k for the year and the publicity around the acquisition brought in money.

It is all about business. Let’s be realist here.
 
Why folks are trying to compare Casey's situation to Crowell's history is ludricous. Casey was defending himself from an assault. He had no control of what his teammates had done to the guy afterwards because he was already gone.
Other than this ONE incident, Casey never had anymore problems after this.

Crowell, on the other hand, has had multiple incidents. He has a history of getting in trouble. What are the odds that this pattern won't continue while he's at Bama State? Slim to none and slim just left the building, but then again there's always the chance that some of us could be wrong.
 
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